Today I ran across an interesting educational site: Collapse: Why do civilizations fall? It teaches about the collapse of the Mayan, Mesopotamian, Chaco Canyon, and the Mali/Songhai civilizations.
Interestingly enough, they draw a few conclusions.
Understanding CollapseHow many of these prerequisites for survival are politically supported by Republicans? Conservatives? Libertarians?The normal pattern of history shows one civilization succeeding another, either rapidly or gradually. When a large state-level society falls, the population size and density decrease dramatically. Society tends to become less politically centralized. Less investment is made in elements such as architecture, art, and literature. Trade and other economic activities are greatly diminished, and the flow of information among people slows. The ruling elites may change, but usually the working classes tend to remain and provide continuity (though in some cases, virtually no one remains).
[P6: Doesn't this sound familiar?]Is it possible to prevent a collapse?
Scientists Thuman and Bennet have highlighted "prerequisites for survival," needs that must be met in order for a society to continue:
This last prerequisite is more important than it may seem. No societal activity is possible unless people are motivated to participate. Why do we get up in the morning? How do we see ourselves in relation to other members of society? Why do we follow a society's rules? Without a sense of meaning and motivation, people will become apathetic. If this happens, a society may be threatened with decline.
- Every society must be able to answer the basic biological needs of its members: food, drink, shelter, and medical care.
- Every society must provide for the production and distribution of goods and services (perhaps through a division of labor, rules concerning property and trade, or ideas about the role of work).
- Every society must provide for the reproduction of new members and consider laws and issues related to reproduction (regulation, marriageable age, number of children, and so on).
- Every society must provide for the training (education, apprenticeship, passing on of values) of an individual so that he or she can become a functioning adult in the society.
- Every society must provide for the maintenance of internal and external order (laws, courts, police, wars, diplomacy).
- Every society must provide meaning and motivation to its members.
Posted by P6 at May 2, 2004 11:15 PM
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Comments
"How many of these prerequisites for survival are politically supported by Republicans? Conservatives? Libertarians"
All of them I'd say.
Outside of Islamists, deep green Eco-radicals, white supremacist lunatics and anarchists almost all political groups in America are in favor of the fundamental aspects of civilization. The modalities differ but most people prefer civilization to the alternative.
"Mayan, Mesopotamian, Chaco Canyon, and the Mali/Songhai civilizations"
Wow ! Speaking as a historian I doubt if I could put together a grouping with less analagous relevance to the 21st century United States. In fact, these civilizations have little in common with each other.
Posted by mark safranski at May 3, 2004 12:24 AMThe modalities differ but most people prefer civilization to the alternative.
Hey, did I use a small 'l' or a capita; one???
People favor civilization, but they don't seem to realize it when their actions run counter to that. So
Society tends to become less politically centralizedLet's devolve all control back to the state and local level, and
Less investment is made in elements such as architecture, art, and literature.…let's make sure the NEA doesn't fund anything offensive, and
the flow of information among people slows…let's cripple the FOIA, control access to all real information, using our greatest discipline to stay on message.
Every society must be able to answer the basic biological needs of its members: food, drink, shelter, and medical care.What?? Subsidizing subsistance?
Every society must provide for the production and distribution of goods and services (perhaps through a division of labor, rules concerning property and trade, or ideas about the role of work).And two of these three options are being seriously undermined by free market extremists.
Every society must provide for the training (education, apprenticeship, passing on of values) of an individual so that he or she can become a functioning adult in the society.…which can't be done when education is a commodity priced such that people simply can't buy it.
Every society must provide for the maintenance of internal and external order (laws, courts, police, wars, diplomacy).…note the requirement if for order, not law…in particular, not the kind of law that looks like order but is functionally disruptive as hell.
Every society must provide meaning and motivation to its members.
Black guy speaking: We have come up serious short here, for Black folks. Probably colors my view of the whole thing.
"Mayan, Mesopotamian, Chaco Canyon, and the Mali/Songhai civilizations"Wow ! Speaking as a historian I doubt if I could put together a grouping with less analagous relevance to the 21st century United States. In fact, these civilizations have little in common with each other.
That's why I found it interesting they could draw conclusions as they did.
Posted by P6 at May 3, 2004 07:34 AMCivilization actually precedes the Great Society, rumor has it that it may even have preceded the New Deal ;o)
Centralization also has been the bane of civilizations - Ming and Q'ing China, Diocletian's economic " reforms " that sent the Western Roman empire into an irreversible decline, Soviet central planning that turned the nation with the world's richest agricultural resources into a net food importer...Political centralization also did not help either the ancient Egyptians, Persians or the Aztecs defeat foreign invaders with new technologies.
Closer to home I could easily make the case that much of what ails the poor - dysfunctional school systems, high illegitimacy rates, the decline of marriage and fatherhood, limited job opportunities for unskilled workers - are the result or byproduct of Liberal social policies and court decisions.
The social fabric has been unraveled from more than just one side
Posted by mark safranski at May 3, 2004 08:38 PMI grant that there are cenbtralized ways of screwing things up, but I can't think of a decentralized way to put things together correctly.
Closer to home I could easily make the case that much of what ails the poor - dysfunctional school systems, high illegitimacy rates, the decline of marriage and fatherhood, limited job opportunities for unskilled workers - are the result or byproduct of Liberal social policies and court decisions.I've heard the anecdotal evidence for those cases. And of course I could make the case&heliip;I just made. That there are necessities for civilization that are opposed in principle by too significant a fraction of the populace. Posted by P6 at May 4, 2004 12:23 AM