Prometheus 6

Do not make the mistake of thinking that because my conclusion is the same as another person's that my reasoning is the same

A Good Cause or Two

Click for more info

The Best of P6

The Racism Series The Reparations Series Installing a negro in your head Identity Blogging Where We Stand The LimbaughDiscussion That has Nothing To Do With Limbaugh

Updated when I write something really cool

Local Links

The Attack on Civil Rights Corporate Influence on Government The Development of Race Basic Laws of Human Stupidity Blogger Archives

EMAIL ME AT

Archives

May 23, 2004 - May 29, 2004 May 16, 2004 - May 22, 2004 May 09, 2004 - May 15, 2004 May 02, 2004 - May 08, 2004 April 25, 2004 - May 01, 2004 April 18, 2004 - April 24, 2004 April 11, 2004 - April 17, 2004 April 04, 2004 - April 10, 2004 March 28, 2004 - April 03, 2004 March 21, 2004 - March 27, 2004 March 14, 2004 - March 20, 2004 March 07, 2004 - March 13, 2004 February 29, 2004 - March 06, 2004 February 22, 2004 - February 28, 2004 February 15, 2004 - February 21, 2004 February 08, 2004 - February 14, 2004 February 01, 2004 - February 07, 2004 January 25, 2004 - January 31, 2004 January 18, 2004 - January 24, 2004 January 11, 2004 - January 17, 2004 January 11, 2004 - January 17, 2004 January 04, 2004 - January 10, 2004 December 28, 2003 - January 03, 2004 December 21, 2003 - December 27, 2003 December 14, 2003 - December 20, 2003 December 07, 2003 - December 13, 2003 November 30, 2003 - December 06, 2003 November 23, 2003 - November 29, 2003 November 16, 2003 - November 22, 2003 November 09, 2003 - November 15, 2003 November 02, 2003 - November 08, 2003 October 26, 2003 - November 01, 2003 October 19, 2003 - October 25, 2003 October 12, 2003 - October 18, 2003 October 05, 2003 - October 11, 2003 September 28, 2003 - October 04, 2003 September 21, 2003 - September 27, 2003 September 14, 2003 - September 20, 2003 September 07, 2003 - September 13, 2003 August 31, 2003 - September 06, 2003 August 24, 2003 - August 30, 2003 August 17, 2003 - August 23, 2003 August 10, 2003 - August 16, 2003 August 03, 2003 - August 09, 2003 July 27, 2003 - August 02, 2003 July 20, 2003 - July 26, 2003 July 13, 2003 - July 19, 2003 July 06, 2003 - July 12, 2003 June 29, 2003 - July 05, 2003 June 22, 2003 - June 28, 2003 June 15, 2003 - June 21, 2003 June 08, 2003 - June 14, 2003 June 01, 2003 - June 07, 2003 May 25, 2003 - May 31, 2003 May 18, 2003 - May 24, 2003 May 11, 2003 - May 17, 2003 May 04, 2003 - May 10, 2003 April 27, 2003 - May 03, 2003 April 20, 2003 - April 26, 2003 April 13, 2003 - April 19, 2003 April 06, 2003 - April 12, 2003

« What Bush saw when he looked into Putin's soul | Main | The future of American business »

May 24, 2004

The problem with race problems

I hate talking about race problems when there's more than one race present.

When I get to focus on one crew at a time I get useful discussions like the one at Blogcritics that followed up Joseph Taylor's foolishness. That discussion was useful because I got to point out the central reason Black and white people seem unable to come to terms over race:

But understand that you and I are dealing with different aspects of that legacy.

What problems does racism cause you, a reasonably well-educated white male from a fairly upper middle class background?

What problems does racism cause me, a 6'2" 185 lb Black male, self-educated, no degree, had to work up from messenger to Assistant VP at a bank, father a farmer, mother a laborer that eventually got a nice safe civil service job?

It's because we're discussion two different things. We're not discussion racism, we're discussing "how racism affects me."

I am curious what the practical ramifications are of your Black partisanship. Do you relate to me differently because I am White because of it?

Note that "the practical ramifications" aren't political, economic, social, but are personal to the questioner.

Black and white folks have the same practical definitions of racism: "References to race that will make me feel bad if I accept it as I understand it." So Joseph Taylor can rant about Black partisans, swear up and down he pays no regard to race, no suh, yet drop this gem in the discussion:

But then again, my logic professor was a white guy, so maybe my ignorant belief that attacking someone because he's white is fallacious stems from that... *L*

…demonstrating that race is only racist when it hurts his feelings somehow.

That Eric is so reasonable and Joseph so not while both show this pattern demonstrates this is a matter of understandings, not misunderstandings. And it explains why totally well meaning people can come up with (from my perspective) the worst ideas to "solve" racism. It's because they're addressing a different problem than the one that has been so damaging to us all.

Posted by P6 at May 24, 2004 10:18 AM
Trackback URL: http://www.niggerati.net/mt/mt-tb.cgi/1977
Comments

Part of what you seem to be struggling against is the irrational cultural prevalence of psychological subjectivism which leaves it up to the chance perceptions of particular individuals whether a thing exists or not.

One person's vague unease is as valid or unprovable as anyone else so somebody can say or do any foolish thing and claim complete innocence ( or hurl denunciations) without any kind of common reference point.

Some things are intrinsically wrong even if no one in particular gets their feelings hurt while other things are right no matter how many people get their nose out of joint.

Posted by mark safranski at May 24, 2004 02:54 PM

That is part of it, yes. Another part is willful denial…you can prove someone wrong as hell and they'll repeat the same argument to the next guy, as though out-arguing ten guys cancels the truth that one person speaks.

And it's not specific to race. I'm seeing it in politics, economics, religion, science…and the word that occurs to me to describe it all is disgusting.

Posted by P6 at May 24, 2004 03:25 PM

Disgusting and weak.

Posted by P6 at May 24, 2004 03:25 PM

I see a lot of that too. It's coupled with an increasing desire to create partisan zones, listservs,newsmagazines,talk shows,blogs, websites free of opinions that contradict the house orthodoxy.

Hmmmm Promethean Earl tends, despite his politics, toward an Aristotlelean-objective epistemology...probably why we can find common ground instead of dead ends.

Posted by mark safranski at May 24, 2004 10:28 PM

Tends? Mark, if its less real than a rock it's of no use to me. There are times I think Platonism is the root cause of all the maladjustments current in Western civilization.

And my politics depends on objectivity. How else do you know if something works? Hell, everyone's politic should depend on objectivity, for the same reason.

Posted by P6 at May 24, 2004 11:05 PM

" Tends? Mark, if its less real than a rock it's of no use to me. There are times I think Platonism is the root cause of all the maladjustments current in Western civilization."

Amen.

I hereby promote you to the status of my favorite progressive. With that kind of realism I wonder if you will be considered " progressive " in the current political sense of the term a decade from now

Posted by mark safranski at May 25, 2004 11:06 AM