MR. RUSSERT: In the last 48 hours, four more American servicemen have been killed. That’s 37 from hostile fire since May 1; 89 since May 1, when you count all deaths. How do we end this guerrilla war against American soldiers?
AMB. BREMER: Well, let’s put it in perspective. The death of any American serviceman is obviously a tragedy, but what we’re faced here with is a small group of killers, trained killers, who are basically trying to hold back the tide of history in Iraq, and the tide of history is flowing towards democracy. These are people who are ex-Ba’athists, Fedayeen Saddam ex-people in the intelligence community there, and we simply have to overpower them, and we will.
MR. RUSSERT: How many are there?
AMB. BREMER: We don’t know. Obviously, if we knew, we’d have better intelligence and we’d be able to go after them. There were tens of thousands of people in the Republican Guards in the Fedayeen Saddam and they are concentrated in an area which is where Saddam had his traditional political and tribal support, a small area between Tikrit, which was Saddam’s hometown, and Baghdad, in the south. That’s where 85 percent of the attacks against American forces have taken place since June 1. So it’s a small area of the country we’re dealing with.

MR. RUSSERT: Robert Byrd, the Democratic senator from West Virginia, said it’s an urban guerrilla shooting gallery.
SEC’Y RUMSFELD: I heard that.
MR. RUSSERT: Do you agree?
SEC’Y RUMSFELD: Well, it is not restricted to urban areas, for one thing. It is happening in some urban centers. It’s also happening in some non-urban areas. Is it a shooting gallery? Are people being shot at? Yes. Is it a difficult situation? You bet. Are more people going to be killed? I’m afraid that’s true.

MR. RUSSERT: Do you believe that Saddam Hussein himself is orchestrating this resistance.
AMB. BREMER: No, there’s no evidence of any central control at this point yet, Tim. What we’re seeing is highly professional but very small sort of squad level attacks, five or six people at a time, attacking us. Saddam Hussein, I think, is alive. I think he is in Iraq. And the sooner we can either kill him or capture him the better because the fact that his fate is unknown certainly gives his supporters the chance to go around and try to rally support for him.
MR. RUSSERT: You’re confident you will kill or capture him?
AMB. BREMER: Oh, I think there’s no question. It’s a matter of time. We now have a reward out, $25 million, leading to his capture or a certain proof that he’s dead. And I think in time we’ll get him.

AMB. BREMER: I think it’s clear that given the size of the task we are going to be there for a while. I don’t know how many years. Of course, in terms of what I’m in charge of, which is the coalition authority, there’s a pretty clear timetable. We took the first step last week with the selection of a governing council, which is the first time the Iraqis have had a representative group. We’ll get a constitutional process started here in the next couple of months. Once a constitution is written, then we have elections, we’ll get a sovereign Iraqi government. And at that point the coalition’s job is done. There may still be a need for security forces, but at least the civilian coalition authority, which I head, will then at that point hand over sovereignty to an Iraqi government.

MR. RUSSERT: Let me show you a bit more of the report I mentioned, and here it is on the screen:
More money, more personnel. Do you agree?
AMB. BREMER: Yes, I agree, but let’s understand where we are. We have some 37 nations that have already pledged almost $3 billion to the reconstruction of Iraq. We have 19 countries which are already contributing troops on the ground in Iraq. This is already a substantial international operation.
MR. RUSSERT: But, Mr. Ambassador, stop there, because we have 147,000 Americans.
AMB. BREMER: Correct.
MR. RUSSERT: The other 19 countries combined represent about 13,000 troops.
AMB. BREMER: That’s right.
MR. RUSSERT: That is a pretty difficult ratio for the American people to accept.

MR. RUSSERT: You know, General Shinseki, the Army Chief of Staff, said something months ago, and I asked Secretary Rumsfeld about it last week. I’m going to show you, and again, this is what he said: “‘I would say that what’s been mobilized to this point, something on the order of several hundred thousand soldiers,’ Shinseki said. ‘Assistance from friends and allies would be helpful.’”... That’s what we’re going to need. And at that time, “Pentagon officials have said that U.S. forces massed in the region number about 200,000.”
He was pretty accurate, wasn’t he?
AMB. BREMER: Well, we’ve got 147,000 already just in Iraq. I don’t know what the total number is in the region, but we have substantial, and in my belief, adequate numbers of troops. And incidentally, I think it’s important not to play the numbers game.

…MR. RUSSERT: There was a time when government officials at the Pentagon and the White House were saying that we would have about 50,000 troops this fall in Iraq. That was wildly optimistic, wasn’t it?
AMB. BREMER: Look, I’m just not going to play the numbers game, Tim. To me, this is a question for the military commanders.

MR. RUSSERT: Let me take you back to February and a question-and-answer session with you, and here was the question: “Army Chief of Staff General Shinseki said it would take several hundred thousand troops on the ground to secure Iraq and provide stability. Is he wrong?” Rumsfeld: “What is, I think reasonably certain is, the idea that it would take several hundred thousand U.S. forces, I think, is far from the mark. ...it’s not logical to me that it would take as many forces ... following a conflict as it would to win the war.”
The fact is, we now have as many forces on the ground as it took to win the war. You suggested moments ago it may take more. In retrospect, wasn’t General Shinseki correct?
SEC’Y RUMSFELD: Well, put the quote back up.
MR. RUSSERT: Sure will.
SEC’Y RUMSFELD: He said several hundred thousand.
MR. RUSSERT: Right. Troops on the ground...
SEC’Y RUMSFELD: Troops on the ground...
MR. RUSSERT: ...to secure Iraq and provide stability.
SEC’Y RUMSFELD: He was talking about U.S.—the question was about U.S. servicemen.
MR. RUSSERT: It’s right here. “...take several hundred thousand troops on the ground...”
SEC’Y RUMSFELD: Right.
MR. RUSSERT: “...to secure Iraq and provide stability. Is he wrong?”
SEC’Y RUMSFELD: No.

SEC’Y RUMSFELD: Right. OK. How does one respond to that? First of all, General Shinseki is a fine officer. He was pressed and pressed in a congressional hearing for an answer, and he finally answered, saying that. He said it in good faith. Several hundred thousand is 300,000 and more. That’s what several hundred thousand means. We have had a total of 148,000 or 150,000 in there. That is not several hundred thousand.

MR. RUSSERT: But would it be worth, some would say, eating a little bit of crow and saying to the U.N., “We need your help,” and saying to the Germans and French, “We need your help”?
AMB. BREMER: You know, I don’t think it’s—you’re making it sound as if we’re resisting the idea of international forces coming in, and that’s just not true. I’ve already said we have 12 different nations that already have forces on the ground. Almost all the NATO members have forces on the ground...
MR. RUSSERT: But it’s a miniscule amount.
AMB. BREMER: ...and committed.
MR. RUSSERT: It’s 13,000; we have 147,000.
AMB. BREMER: Well...
MR. RUSSERT: The ratio is a little bit overextended.
AMB. BREMER: Well, Tim, we are the world’s great power right now, and with great power goes great responsibility.

MR. RUSSERT: We had a situation the other day where one of the ranking Shiite clerics in Iraq called for an Islamic army, saying no to America, no to the devil. This was the scene yesterday as many of his supporters were protesting American presence. Would it be helpful in order to deal with Iraqis like this and the cleric Sadr, that there be more of an international flavor to the occupying force, so it would not be perceived by the Iraqis as simply a made-in-America operation?
AMB. BREMER: No. That, I don’t think, is the problem here. What we’re seeing is an understandable reaction by the Shia—he is a Shia cleric. They were crushed by Saddam over a period of, really, decades and, in fact, for centuries.

MR. RUSSERT: The American troops over there—it has been described as a guerrilla war, as a shooting gallery. The whole issue of morale has been front and center, as many of the American soldiers have been talking to the media. This was what the sergeant at the 2nd Battle Command team headquarters said. He was talking about the deck of cards of the Iraqi leadership, and he said this: “I’ve got my own ‘Most Wanted’ list. ... The aces in my deck are Paul Bremer, Donald Rumsfeld, George Bush and Paul Wolfowitz.”
How serious is the morale problem with our troops, who have been there since September, who believed they were going to be home and should be home?
AMB. BREMER: Well, I think it’s hard to make a general statement. I have visited with all of the American forces there. I have met probably thousands of American troops now. I don’t sense a major morale problem among them. Understandably, it’s not a very easy place to be. The temperatures, when you’re lucky, are 115 to 120. It’s a difficult assignment. But my sense is the American troops are there, they understand what they’re there for, they support the president’s goals there. They’re doing a magnificent job. So I don’t accept the hypothesis that we have a major morale problem among our troops. I just don’t think it’s true.

MR. RUSSERT: And are you confident that you’ll also find weapons of mass destruction?
AMB. BREMER: I believe we will find evidence of the programs of chemical and biological weapons, yes.
MR. RUSSERT: How about the actual weapons?
AMB. BREMER: Well, I just don’t know. Let’s wait and see what the team that’s over there—we have a very large team of some 1,500 people under General Dayton with David Kay, who have begun operations there. Let’s just see what they come up with.