Prometheus 6

Good link. Robert George at first read is my kind of conservative.  Here's the quote I come back with:

Ironically, the concern uttered here is not that the statements are necessarily racist or suggest some animus toward minorities. That's not the point. It is that the speakers seem unable to see those suffering as as actual people.

I have no such bonds.

Maybe I have too many, but I just enjoy people. You included.

This shit is hard, and you have to be willing to deal in the kind of truth that pisses off both friends and enemies.

I'm still mostly in reflection mode, but your (2nd) bus story continues to develop in my mind. It now seems so clear, but the clarity is vastly different from past reality. It's a story I hear from white people from time to time. Here's how it goes.

I was in <east bay, Oakland>, and needed <something>. I went to a reasonable looking place, but all I saw were young black males. They offered to help, but I was scared, and left.

It's your bus story, P6. Told by the white guy. Being very careful to include the fact that the scary black males did not reject normal interaction. Here's my extrapolation to the other half:

Last night this white man came in, needing <what we have>. We did what we could, but it was very clear that this white man didn't like black people, and didn't want to do business with black people."

They offered to help, but I was scared, and left.

mebbe some paxil would help him with his complexion anxiety disorder..,

We can generally tell the difference between fear and distaste.

And in the situation you describe, after the white man left the Black males may have looked at each other for an instant, may have shrugged but most likely they wouldn't have noticed. It's a common reaction.

What makes your bus story different?

Different than what?

It seemed that the bus story involved a judgement of distaste. No?

On whose part?

This is the first time you lost me entirely. 

Hmm.

Here's how it went as I recall. You posted the bus story. I analyzed it as a story involving irrational fear. You analyzed it as a story involving racism, and believed I was making excuses for the guy.

Is that incorrect? 

So where's the judgement of distaste? To be precise I said it was a disturbing combination of respect and fear.

And you said it had to be approached as irrational fear because white people will reject any attempt to approach it as racism. 

Was it racism?

Is that conversation over?

What's your point? 

Never mind. You say the second bus conversation expanded your mind but pick up with the first one.

This is why I don't actually trust you. 

No, I was discussing the second one all the time.  The one I included a link to.

What's your point?

Here and now, I was wondering if we had miscommunicated.  I thought you accused the guy of racism, the guy who got claustrophobic. I thought you were irritated with me for suggesting fear rather than racism as what he experienced.

But when I simplify it to purely fear vs racism, you define a boundary.  A good boundary, and I was pleased to see it.  I was surprised though. I had thought we had come to no-such-boundary in the bus story.

That's why I was back establishing the fundamentals. Was the guy a racist?  If so, what did he do beyond fear which yielded that result? 

We have a problem. You're not paying attention. In the post under discussion I wrote:

Now obviously this wasn't a bad guy at all.

You know I don't explain the obvious. And I'm still waiting for the distaste thing. 

Oh. The fear you described is racist.

Is that what you were after? Are you trying to figure out how afraid it's cool to be?

Oh. The fear you described is racist.

Ok. That's what I thought you said the first time. 

Where I wasn't right was in interpreting "racist" as "distaste". 

Is that what you were after? Are you trying to figure out how afraid it's cool to be?

One of two things has happened.

1. The claustrophobic guy was racist, but, no real foul, and I misunderstood your reaction.

2. The guy in my story was racist, and while it got shrugged off, it was a bigger deal than that.

I'm guessing (1), but p6, I really don't know.

So after thinking about this for a while, I think what I don't understand is the relationship between racism and animosity.  I had assumed there could not be racism without animosity of some kind, and that experiencing incoming racism was to experience animosity.  That's how I concluded "distaste".

Agreed superioracism is surely racism, but superioracism seems inherently animus regardless of intent.

Any black Republican with an ounce of integrity has reason to be concerned about these folks. I think in a short period of time it is going to become clearer to a lot of black Republicans and blacks who no longer consider themselves Democrats that they have more in common than they once thought possible.

Ok, P, you've hooked me back permanent-like with this post. I've been scurred to stand in your torrent, but I've braced myself now.

"This shit is hard, and you have to be willing to deal in the kind of truth that pisses off both friends and enemies. Not like you should try to piss them off...if you constantly search for the angry truth, you got issues. But if you be avoiding things, it's not your friend you're hiding from."

I must admit, there've been a number plenty of times in my blog-comment career when a moment after pressing the 'send' button, I think, "uh-oh, howz that gonna go over."  It's not (or at least it shouldn't be) a comfortable thing, pressing where the sensible and prudent dare not tread.  Sometimes Ego has Truth gasping in its taloned clutch and it's a daunting bit of business trying to needle them apart.

As Cobb bravely put it, "In the end, you simply have to be comfortable being alone."

Ok, P, you've hooked me back permanent-like with this post. I've been scurred to stand in your torrent, but I've braced myself now.

Don't think I didn't notice when you bailed... 

You do have to be comfortable being alone. But you don't have to be alone. 

Hee! Naw, I don't suppose you would've, less'n you spend time trackin IPs.  It was never the content, just the sheer volume.  Cobb et al go at a pace more natural to me.  But I'm buildin up m'callouses to go a lil faster. Gotta keep up with the tour.

Relax. Even I don't participate in every thread every day. Seriously though, I am looking forward to your input.