Okay -- if it wasn't his race that caused him to be overrated, what was it?

You're assuming he's overrated. You are in a distinct minority when you make such a statement.Find a FOOTBALL PLAYER that feels he's overrated, and I'll consider the position.

Okay, so the issue is that Rush doesn't understand football, and doesn't have anything to do with race?

Do you really not understand, Phelps?The issue is a gratuitous use of race to bad-mouth a proven All-Star. The issue is Rush is a pinheaded racist bastard.

I think I understand; I am trying to see if you understand, or if you are just knee-jerking. Things like "stank, lard ass, racist, foul mouth bastard" sound to me like someone who has lost his ability to reason. When I see someone putting words like "before my lard-ass suffers the great indignity of getting fired because I offened…niggers…and them white race traitors whut supports dem" in the mouth of someone whom I have never heard of saying anything remotely like that, and could only be assumed to think things like that because he is W-H-I-T-E, then I feel like I am under attack by association.So Fucking-A, I understand. Do you?

It's never safe to assume I've lost the ability to reason.Okay, I don't reason very well when I'm asleep. But the fact is, sometimes obscenity accurately represents a situation.

When I see someone putting words like "before my lard-ass suffers the great indignity of getting fired because I offened…niggers…and them white race traitors whut supports dem" in the mouth of someone whom I have never heard of saying anything remotely like that, and could only be assumed to think things like that because he is W-H-I-T-E, then I feel like I am under attack by association.

What you need to do, then, is…stop assuming. Because you are definitely on the wrong track.He does not think these things because he is white. He thinks these things because he is a subset of white, i.e. "white" and "stank, lard ass, racist, foul mouth bastard"."Stank", "lard ass" and "foul mouth" are gratuitous, I admit. And actually, if challenged on "foul mouth", I'd have to yield.At any rate, on the key characteristics of "white" and "racist", if you are in that cohort then yes, my phrasing does indeed attack you by association. If you aren't you can relax.

Okay, let me make sure that I understand the score. What you have on Rush right now is:1) He is wrong that (whoever the football player is) is overrated and therefore draws flawed conclusions, and2) He is white.What am I missing?

You do not understand the score. What you're missing is everything, it seems.The problem is, he's a bigot and most likely a racist. At minimum he advances a racist agenda.Your point one is merely that which exposed his agenda. Your point two is merely that which shaped the particular pejoratives I used. Both points are insignificant.It seems you can't get past the idea of saying a white man can be a racist. It seems you feel saying that some white man somewhere is a racist reflects directly on you. Why is that?

good morning mister phelps. your mission, should you choose to accept it, is to go back and do some reading of rush limbaugh's live on-air radio transcripts. there are very extensive repostings of his type of rhetoric available at rushlimbaughtomy. if upon doing this research you fail to find a very overt pattern of, among other things, racism, the secretary will disavow any knowledge of your actions.good luck. this message will self-destruct in five seconds.

Trackback from Cobb:

A certain big fat idiot forgot to read the label. Are there any activities that I should not perform while using OxyContin for pain relief? OxyContin may interfere with your ability to do certain things that require your full attention.......

This is what I see from the outside looking in:RL: They only cheer for him cos he's blackP6 reaction to RL: @#&!%%Glenn: Would you guys be bashing 50 cent if he were white?P6 reaction to Glenn: I feel ya.Now, granted that Glen only begged the question, If Glenn had said "You're only bashing 50 cent cos he's black", would he have gotten the same reaction from you as RL?

No.Now, why do you think that is?

Well, I guess one of us is (again) looking at the similarities, and the other at the differences.If you want me to look for differences, Glenn avoided giving his own opinion on the bashability of 50 cent.And one could (reasonably) claim that, independent of any truth to both allegations, rooting for someone cos of his color is a form of "postive" discrimination, while bashing someone cos of it is a lot more reprehensible.But this also works in the other direction: gratuitously accusing someone of bashing someone cos of his color must then by consequence be a lot worse then gratuitoulsy accusing someone of "positive" discrimination.

You didn't answer my question.Go ahead, tell me. I'm rather thick-skined.

But think carefully. Make sure that what you you're seeing is what's actually there.

Here's the difference. I'm no Rush fan -- he bores me. But I don't see anything that establishes some sort of pattern and practice. I see one comment that he has made, and I see you jumping all over him.But you weren't happy to just disagree with him. You relished in insulting him, and you chose to do it in one of the most racially offensive ways you could. You couldn't even keep your statments consistent within the same post.

"My comments this past Sunday were directed at the media and were not racially motivated," Limbaugh said in a statement issued at midnight yesterday. "I offered an opinion. This opinion has caused discomfort for the crew, which I regret.[p6: Maybe technically true; You crack a racist joke, your motivation is to be funny.]

Okay, so even if your intent is to just be funny, it still isn't right to make a racist joke. Am I reading that right? The very next paragraph:

"I love 'NFL Sunday Countdown' and do not want to be a distraction to the great work done by all who work on it. Therefore, I have decided to resign." [p6: "…before my lard-ass suffers the great indignity of getting fired because I offened…niggers…and them white race traitors whut supports dem."]

What was your motivation for making that racist joke?

1: I wasn't joking.2: You still haven't answered the question-Now, why do you think that is? I know your opinion of the statement. A simple "I don't know" would be an answer.

whoah, that was phelps butting in.Just to be sure, the question is, if Glenn were to say to some 50 cent bashers "You are only bashing him cos his color", why wouldn't P6 react in the same manner as he did to RL's remarks?OK, I would say that it icould be because you disagree with the statement"McNabb is overrated and gets credit just for being black"while you might tentatively agree with the statement"50 cent gets a lot more bashing just for being black"

Sorry, DoF, You're right. Phelphs has a different question left open in the thread.

For you, This is from th post I linked to when I said I feel ya. If you feel you can honorably reduce what he's saying in this post to "you don't like 50 cent because he's Black", well, you've considerably reduced my opinion of your reading retention.

Because what it IS, is a rather concise explanation of why Black people keep noticing how white people people react to Black people. And it's THAT, that I'm agreeing with.

More on the 50 Cent discussion

First off I would like to publicly state for the record that just because this discussion is going on at Mac's blog, I am in no way grouping her in with the people I have responded to. The post that started the discussion was in no way offensive to me, I just took issue with the comments to her post and the groupthink mentality that was starting to form over there.
[p6: Note Glenn said he had no objection to the original post, that it's the groupthink that's a problem]

Second, I would like to publicly state that I acknowledge that I have more than a few white/caucasian/european readers and I hope they take my comments in the spirit I intend them.

Now to my point. I love how white people claim that you're obsessed with race when you question their reasoning or judgement when they form opinions about people.

Here's a comment I left in Mac's blog:

Am I obsessed? Is that the way it's coming across.

Let me make this VERY clear. There is a difference between being obsessed with race and acknowledging it. I've said this before on my blog and I'll say it again. As a black man I don't have the opportunity to ignore race or pay it no mind. Racial politics and blacks being on the bottom of society's racial totem pole won't let me. That's not obsession. That's fact.

Also, I'm no 50 Cent fan. I like some of his music, but I wouldn't call myself a fan. I'm not defending him or his lifestyle or his music, I'm presenting the viewpoint that maybe some of you are quick to slam 50 cent because he is a young black male with money and doesn't give a damn what you think about him.

If that makes me obsessed I am a rabid, obsessed fool.

Now to be fair, the person I was directing the comment to may or may not be white. The race of that person is mainly irrelevant. I find this attitude to be prevelant among a lot of white people, at least the ones that care to make their opinions known.

FACT: Blacks are on the bottom of America's racial totem pole. I'm willing to listen to arguments that Native Americans are lower, but my argument against that is that visions of the "Noble Savage" and the "Dying Indian" get Native Americans much more sympathy then blacks.

I'll repeat it again. As a black man I don't have the luxury to ignore race or pretend it doesn't exist. Sure, I'd LOVE to ignore race and live in a color-less and class-less society. But I don't anticipate waking up in Utopia tomorrow morning. I'll be waking up in the US of A. And the reality is that societal prejudices and attitudes prevent me from ignoring the fact that I'm black and most people are not. This is not a opinion, it is a FACT.

So to counteract the sure tide of comments from people calling me "obsessed" with race, having an attitude counterproductive to the goal of a colorblind society or whatever else some of you people may be coming up with I'll say this.

I am accepting of all races, creeds, colors, religions, etc. Sure I hold prejudices like everyone else, but since I'm not a phony and like to "keep it real" any time I have a prejudiced thought I have to check myself, because I know how it feels to be prejudged or have assumptions made about you because of a genetic factor that you have ZERO control over. As I have written before and will surely write again, anyone that makes a practice of prejudging people on the criteria of race, religion, etc., is a person that I have very little respect for. And as long as I have this forum to call these people out I will do so.

Phelps:

I don't react to each action as a sigular instance, not exclusively anyway. I react to patterns, and in fact am more likely to respond to a pattern than a single incident.

And I was as offensive as he is. When you say to a Black caller, "Take the bone out of your nose and call me back," you have a long way to go before I'm willing to deal with you as a decent human being. Limberger has only dug the hole deeper over the years.

Limberger doesn't have access to the "kick the dog" defense. His position is, "Hey I kicked that dog for no reason, and he bit me! He shouldn't have done that because I was just showing how no one kicks dogs anymore."

I will continue to disrespect the man until he shows a pattern of respect for Black people that approaches the pattern of disrespect he has established. And I will show no respect for ANYone that continually disrespects me and mine. It's that simple.

Now, why is it so offensive to point out racist behavior in white people when it seems fine to point out racist behavior in Black people? And why do you feel attacked by association when you haven't really shown any signs that would make me associate you with Limberger?

Now, why is it so offensive to point out racist behavior in white people when it seems fine to point out racist behavior in Black people?

I don't object to you pointing it out; I object to you stooping to the same sorts of tactics. I've called the various race pimps here in Dallas racists before, but I don't try to put myself into thier minds and call everyone a peckerwood, cracker or hymie.

And why do you feel attacked by association when you haven't really shown any signs that would make me associate you with Limberger?

Because the only qualification I've seen for the statements that you made was that Rush was white. I'm white, and therefore associated.

I don't object to you pointing it out; I object to you stooping to the same sorts of tactics. I've called the various race pimps here in Dallas racists before, but I don't try to put myself into thier minds and call everyone a peckerwood, cracker or hymie.

Okay, I can respect that viewpoint.

the only qualification I've seen for the statements that you made was that Rush was white. I'm white, and therefore associated.

Two facts-The qualifications for receiving that type of comment from me is (white) and (racist). White alone is't a problem.

The other fact is that I've ascribed the characteristics to him without saying anything like "Rush is a crakka-ass crakka." This is VERY much a bullshit point, though, as I've used exactly that term for whoever it is behind a blog named The Mulatto Advocate. But I raise it not so much for you as for those who use such tactics in discussions about Black folks.

It's largely tactics, to inspire the same subjective feeling Black folks have when running into a solid wall of verbal oppression. I do it because the whole race thing is so subjective that it's the only way to get the point across. And I seem to have the debating skills to do it and make it stick (in formal terms).

That's how I operate in race discussions. To quote a character from an unfortunately cancelled comic book, "I ain't Martin Luthor King…and I ain't Rodney King either." I'm just a Black guy that knows what I think and feel, and how to communicate both.