Prometheus 6

I was about to say no I don't remember but you didn't waste anytime saying "Exactly." LOL

I'm so not impressed but I know a two sets of people who will be. Hillary hold outs and anyone who thinks Obama's supporters are drones because they like to criticize any and every thing Obama no matter how illogical their argument. This is a "See, Obama messed up." moment to them.

This cannot possibly be an "Obama messed up" moment.

And McCain couldn't have picked a worse one to appeal to whatever Hillary Holdouts remain. Then again, they might see McCain dying of old age as their best shot at a woman President in their lifetime.

Is this the best running mate he could come up with? If so, she are really going to get creamed in the VP debates. I just don't see how she can help him, especially with Billary's support. Plus, how can he now exploit Obama's lack of experience, especially since Obama’s experience has been a main topic of attack for McCain?

I completely agree you. Surf around; you'll see people buying this move hook, line and sinker as a smart political strategic move. But if Winston Churchill's feelings about the "average voter" is true then maybe it is.

She is no match for Biden. Not at all.

"If so, she are really going to get creamed in the VP debates."

Can the first question be about foreign policy please? Heck, it doesn't even matter. Biden is just as ready to debate on domestic issues too.

Hearing to her speak for the first time, my first thoughts are that this is embarrassing, but more than that, this is an insult to more capable women, and to those women who supported Hillary.

She is no match for Biden. Not at all.

That's a small problem, actually. I think voters would have no problem watching Biden flay Romney, Giuliani, Ridge, or Huckabee. He would be able to be sharp, witty, and even sarcastic. With Palin, he'll need to take care not to look like a bully.

Every time a woman whines when a woman is handled in politics (Not based on sexism, just legitimately schooled) it hurts women. You can't cry about not being allowed in the game and then cry when you get in the game and you're the Generals to someone's Harlem Globetrotters.

But you're probably right. He'll have to gently send her back to Alaska.

What does this do for the white male republicans who may not want to support a woman? This is the party after all, that has always been dominated by white males who historically has gone to great efforts to maintain that dominance.

Had that debate over at Skeptical Brotha's last night. This woman has been Governor since 2006 - and OBAMA is inexperienced?

If Obama had chosen someone under investigation, well....

I'm just a-sayin'.

I wonder how the disgruntled HRC supporters will feel about this. BTW they don't have to vote for Obama or McCain. If they want a candidate that is progessive (more than the moderate HRC) and will fight for women's rights they can vote for Cynthia McKinney. I wonder why they haven't considered her?? hmmmmmmmmm.

Cynthia WHO?

HA. And you thought my suggestion of Jessie "the body" Ventura for VP was silly. Looks like Mr McCain took the next best candidate. Maybe Jessie turned him down.

Let's see whether or not and, if so, for how long, the media and pundits focus on Palin's experience. I heard one of the talking heads this morning going on about how the selection of Palin puts the western states in play. I am having a hard time grasping the rationale for this assertion because I do not see Washington, Oregon, California, Nevada, Colorado, New Mexico, Montana and even the "foreign" state of Hawaii going into play because the governor of Alaska is the vice presidential nominee of the Republican Party.

The talking heads and pundits are intelligent peoples worst enemy because their opinion(s) are taken as fact by the ignorant voters. They create media storms over nothing and let 99% of the egregious stuff the Bushies have done pass without so much as a wimper.

Now instead of telling the voters the truth that this pick is a transparent sham by the republicans want an ongoing story to talk about.

Bottom line question the democrats should be pounding is....is she qualified to be president if something happened to ( 99 year old cancer survivor ) McStain? yes or no?

I think the media has a problem. Choosing Palin means the Republicans have written off the election. They'll put on a show but it's only because they can't let a Democrat run for President unopposed. That means the media will have to generate a lot of nonsense to wrap around the advertisements.

Choosing Palin means the Republicans have written off the election.

I'm glad you said that. I considered that for a few minutes this morning and then pushed the idea away as my own wishful thinking. Now that you've put it out there, the thought starts to sound a little more plausible.

Now P6, are you saying the "news" is filler meant to keep you in your chair long enough to get to the real business at hand, the advertising?

"Choosing Palin means the Republicans have written off the election."

I'm not sure. John McCain strikes me as being far too vain to allow himself to be a sacrificial lamb. He has hungered for a seat behind a desk in the Oval Office for more than three decades. I suspect that Palin's selection is part of a go-for-broke strategy. This election already had two feet in the mud but it is now headed for subterranean levels of sludge.

I'd never imply something like that, symphony. Not when I can say it directly.

John McCain strikes me as being far too vain to allow himself to be a sacrificial lamb.

No one asks the sacrificial old goat.

Seriously, this whole election thing is identity politics, and always has been. Republicans broke the identification they carefully built by declaring "the fundamentals are fine" while people's personal problems escalate. This is a desperate, go for broke strategy. If the party had any hope of winning there would be a whole bag of folks dropping veep hints. You heard nuthin'.

They're going to fight a retrograde action.

"No one asks the sacrificial old goat"

In the case of an actual goat, no, they don't. In the case of a human being who may have enough sense to come in out of the rain, yes, an agreement has to be made. McCain is far too egotistical and egocentric to knowingly make any such agreement. He is too old and self-centered to fall on his sword for anybody.

He is too old and self-centered to fall on his sword for anybody.

He is also stuck. When he started running Republicans still had a chance of ironing out their difficulties. Plus he will not have another shot at it. What's he going to do now, withdraw?

http://www.jedreport.com/2008/08/on-sarah-palins-lack-of-experience.html

Sarah Palin's Inexperience Is Relevant
Guest post by Jed's father, Richard Lewison

What this choice does is put the lie to McCain's "Country First" mantra.

A 72 year old chooses a VP candidate with no national political experience. He clearly would put the country at peril if he thinks it will win him enough votes to become president. What a fraud. He reacts to the presidency the way Gollum reacts to The Ring. I wouldn't be surprised if in his dreams he thinks of it as 'my precious.'

Those who compare Palin's slim experience with Obama's should remember that Obama wasn't chosen by a dispeptic old man to run for office. He was chosen by voters after a long and hard campaign.

Last night was spectacular. Obama was smooth as silk and hard as nails.
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You all make great arguments. Palin does reach out to conservatives. She's completely anti-abortion. They're making a play to finish cracking the highest glass ceiling - as though a black man winning president doesn't break any ceilings. But I digress.

I'm sorry. I just think Cindy better be careful. Palin looks like McCain's 3rd wife.

"What's he going to do now, withdraw?"

McCain loves to play poker and I have no way of knowing if he is a good or mediocre player. The only thing I can be sure of is that he will play the hand he is dealt. At this point, the polls are telling him to stay in the game.

What about the Carter factor? Are they setting up the Dems/Obama to take the fall for the coming economic hardship based upon 8 years of republican fiscal malfeasance?

The last time the Republicans were in this bad of shape was after watergate, They let Carter take the blame for hyper inflation and the gas crisis. Which I think was tied to the elder Bush's Saudi OPEC connections, we know that there wasn't a shortage of oil, since we have not had the same problem since.

I don't know, for some reason the first thing that came to mind when I heard this was the Bradley effect. The polls from here on out (as if they were precise to begin with) are somewhat irrelevant. I think that now the people that are going to vote for McCain; particularly white women, can justify it by saying that she would be the first female vice president. The polls will not bear this out.

it was an actual story during this campaign season.

He needs to be hit on it . He really does.

This pick shows nothing but contempt for this country.

"Country First" my ass.

sall, I was thinking - we put so much emphasis on White women and this pick...what about White men? White men who would vote Republican. McCain is 72 and has had cancer numerous times. The likelihood of either candidate if they won making it through their first term was somewhat sticky.

"the Bradley effect"

The Bradley Effect is one of the enduring myths of American politics. Tom Bradley did not lose because of white racism. Bradley lost because he and the sorry-a** people he had running his campaign and the state Democratic Party, which had more than its fair share of sorry-a** people, failed to motivate in excess of 300,000 eligible and registered black voters to go to the polls. Black voter turnout was down all over the state but especially in Los Angeles, Orange, Alameda and Contra Costa counties. Bradley lost because he was afraid to reach out to the black electorate.

Rikyrah,

You are right! Yes, McCain loves to roll the dice. He probably doesn't have the temperament to be a good poker player. My error.

Last night during the convention coverage, I did hear a Republican say that the reason the Clinton years were so good was because of the tax cuts Bush had put in place, and the reason things are so bad now is because Clinton raised taxes.

No joke - I remember my 11 grade AP American history teacher telling me that same thing.

When you think about it, it's kinda believable, but if the theory holds that you don't know how changes in taxes affect the economy until at least 8 years later, then clearly the bad economy under Bush was Reagan fault, and my teacher said that too. But the problem is they don't connect that dots that if lowering taxes led to a bad economy during Bush, then lowering taxes on the rich leads to a bad economy. Period.

And yeah, there may be some Hillary holdout who'll vote for McCain because of Palin, but he's just lost a good chunk of white men. And I'm sorry, a tenure as a mayor of a city of 8000, 18 months as governor of a state of 10000 is not impressive. Whatever corruption she alledgedly fought, Alaske is still fill of corruption. The woman has not experience. All she is is eye-candy and Cindy's competition. I mean, really. How does McCain's mind work? Two former beauty queens in the white house, one as VP. We usually call men like that womanizers and their women dittzies. And that's what I'm call them.

"All she is is eye-candy..."

You must mean for the blind.

Rikyrah, I think it would be a mistake to underestimate the effect that John McCain's POW status has on white males.

I remember the Normal Mailer article that I always reference: "We went to war just to boost the white male ego"

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/columnists/guest_contributors/article871969.ece

But clearly this is a sign of weakness, and desperation on McCain's part. I do know that his staffers have expressed frustration in getting attention in a news cycle because of the historic nature of Obama's candidacy. This is a wild, drunken roundhouse punch. He just met her a few months ago! This shows the extent to which the McCain team feels like it has to play catch up. I wonder how many potential VP picks were flew in. Apparently Pawlenty wasn't in the last two or three. For all the say about celebrity, and the traction that the seemed to have gained by pushing that, he seems to have decided on her well before Obama's historic speech.

With regard to the Bradley effect, I'm not sure what I should think. I was positive that Obama would win New Hampshire, and some people are saying that it was Independents crossing over for McCain. I think the "Bradley/Wilder" effect is real, whether or not one chooses to give it that proper name. Bottom line: enough white people lie when there's a black person involved

"I was positive that Obama would win New Hampshire, and some people are saying that it was Independents crossing over for McCain."

Okay, so in New Hampshire maybe we had the Obama Effect. I have never looked at the turnout results etc. in Virginia but I did for California. I'm not saying that likely voters who were white did not lie to pollsters in the Bradley vs. Deukmejian dust-up. What I'm arguing is that their lies did not cause Bradley to lose.

That's why I told y'all...it's the Wilder Effect, unless you want to set PT off.

This woman is by a large margin the most unprepared individual McCain could've gotten away with picking, her only worthwhile credential being her gender. At least it will be amusing from here on to watch the hypocritical, contorted, self-deluded intellectualizations required to uphold the principle of ABCD: Anybody But the Colored Dude.

Also, John Stewart.

The corporate media and its mouthpieces, aka as reporters, are already hard at work trying to convince folks that there is some good news about John McCain's selection of Sarah Palin as his running mate. Look, for example, at the lead stories in the online editions of the New York Times and Washington Post. Dan Balz, who fronts for the Post, seriously argues that McCain's decision has allowed him to reclaim the title of being a "maverick." This is, of course, pure bunkum and balderdash but the corporate media and the pundits will push this theme until it becomes an accepted part of conventional reality.

PT, I'm going to leave the retail aspects of this selection in abeyance, but at the highest level you must admit that this pick hurts at least as much as it helps. Yesterday Kay Bailey Hutchinson gave a tepid of endorsement and disclosed that she doesn't even know Palin. Any serious observer of politics knows that the Obama campaign went through a disciplined, rigorously structured selection process over several weeks. And while Biden may not provide a significant electoral advantage that would presumably be gained from having swing state figure like Kaine or Bayh, he is unquestionably an asset for governance if Obama wins the presidency. But this choice by McCain has Harriet Miers and Michael Brown written all over it. It only serves to reinforce the image of an imperial president acting without consideration for other shareholders and playing to a narrow but vocal constituency and making purely personal preference the arbiter of matters of state.

If the Sarah Palin choice says anything about John McCain, outside of his utter contempt for the American people, it is that he has become a WHOLLY OWNED SUBSIDIARY OF THE RELIGIOUS RIGHT.

This choice means that he has become ' their boy' without hesitation.

If this were about choosing a Republican WOMAN, there were plenty other choices of GOP women.

But, this wasn't about that.

This was about selling out to the Religious Right, because Palin is THEIR GIRL.

John McCain does not have the money of Barack Obama.

Barack Obama has been out organizing McCain in every state that will be fought over in this election. It was announced only a couple of weeks ago that the McCain Campaign was BEGINNING to form a ground game. But, ground games take money. Money McCain doesn't have.

The ground game for the GOP, in the last 2 election cycles, has been done through The Religious Right. He had no way of getting them to come out and work for him.

UNLESS HE CHOSE ONE OF THEIR FOOT SOLDIERS.

In choosing Palin, he is once again, giving into the GOP base.

In choosing Palin, he is in bed, up to his neck, with the Dobsons, the Pat Robertsons, and all the rest of them.

Maverick my ass.

He's even more of a pawn of the Religious Right than Dubya, and I didn't think that was possible.

When you have such a large discrepency between the results of PAPER ballots

vs. ELECTRONIC voting machines.

well, I'll never believe that he actually lost New Hampshire.

Is exactly right about the Palin choice.

Well, to paraphrase H.L. Mencken, nobody ever lost an election because they underestimated the intelligence of the American people.

They are the flip flop twins "I was for the bridge before I was against it" ...the response to her acceptance speech by the Obama camp was basically "she lied about the bridge to nowhere", What a joke...between the Keating 5 and her lying and corrupt ass their ticket is complete. White people are divided between the old and the new at this point the dumb ones are on the fence but the rest know either they can vote for a black man or they would never vote for a black man. Other wise this race wouldn't even be close based upon a heads up comparison.

I was just reading an article (and posting it on my blog) that towards the end, brought up the Paris Hilton/Brittney Spears ad in the context of subtle racism.

After having seen Paris's response to that ad, and I'm sorry for being silly about this about the whole Palin VP thing is just ridiculously silly to me, but after seeing Paris ad, wouldn't she make a better pick for VP than Palin. And seeing as how I think McCain just wheeling in his 3rd wife anyway, cause she did win a beauty contest ptc, wouldn't Paris be a much better choice?

And think about the youth vote McCain would get!!

I swear. This Palin pick for VP gets funnier and funnier by the minute!

Yes, I know politically we need to talk it serious, but it's hilarious to me!

From watching some talk shows, it a appears that a current tactic is to try to shift the attention to a Palin/Obama comparison, and to try to argue that Palin is more qualified.

I think it's laughable, but I am not a low-information swing voter. I listened to some right wing talk radio, and based on the gushing comments, I think Palin will appeal to independent, so-called undecided voters. Especially women. These low information voters will actually say she has more experience than Obama in the same breath they say he'd a muslim.

I think this is a reckless choice, but alot of the electorate won't see it that way.

I've been taking in some of the reaction too, obviously.

The thing with Republicans this cycle is, you can't be sure what's grass roots and what's astroturf. This is a stunt, no doubt...but so was Alan Keyes's run for the Senate and he got like 35% of the vote out of pure partisanship.