Site logo

Prometheus 6

All respect and no restraint

Preference falsification, or, Let's see if we can narrow it down to WHICH Black people are to blame

Ah, Mr. Blow...

We now know that blacks probably didn’t tip the balance for Proposition 8. Myth busted.

Then there's no point to your article.

There was one very telling (and virtually ignored) statistic in CNN’s exit poll data that may shed some light: There were far more black women than black men, and a higher percentage of them said that they voted for the measure than the men.

Oh, I see. It's not Black people's fault,  it's Black women's fault. But wait, Black people didn't tip  the balance, as Mr. Blow's fellow Conservatives reflexively claimed, right? So this is just a means to restart the debate about Black folks' morality, I guess. makes sense...follows the pattern...

According to the exit poll, 70 percent of all blacks said that they voted for the proposition. But 75 percent of black women did. There weren’t enough black men in the survey to provide a reliable percentage for them. However, one can mathematically deduce that of the raw number of survey respondents, nearly twice as many black women said that they voted for it than black men.

Mathematically deduce? How about we just count the damn responses?

Except, since there wasn't enough black men in the survey to provide a reliable percentage for them, it's an empty gesture...or a framing statement that pretends to accuracy.

Why? Here are my theories:

(1) Blacks are much more likely than whites to attend church, according to a Gallup report, and black women are much more likely to attend church than black men. Anyone who has ever been to a black church can attest to the disparity in the pews. And black women’s church attendance may be increasing.

The survey Mr. Blow links here is from 2007, and is a national poll. It MIGHT be applicable here if the survey was of Blacks in California.

(2) This high rate of church attendance by blacks informs a very conservative moral view. While blacks vote overwhelmingly Democratic, an analysis of three years of national data from Gallup polls reveals that their views on moral issues are virtually indistinguishable from those of Republicans. Let’s just call them Afropublicrats.

Let's just call us Black folks. And let's not pretend moral, rather than mercenary, issues are the driving force. All this "I'm a free market Conservative, but sometimes you have to abandon principle for practicality" is proof of this.

Republicans (including their Black apologists) are so hostile to Black interests that trying to graft some attachment between the two via some neologism is just...desperate.

(3) Marriage can be a sore subject for black women in general. According to 2007 Census Bureau data, black women are the least likely of all women to be married and the most likely to be divorced. Women who can’t find a man to marry might not be thrilled about the idea of men marrying each other.

That's just absurd. Women who can't find a man to marry will not increase the pool of eligibles by obstructing gay marriage. On the other hand, if you bought the other uncorrelated crap in the article, you'll likely not notice the silliness of the statement.

Proponents of gay marriage would do well to focus on these women if they want to win black votes. A major reason is that black women vote at a higher rate than black men. In the CNN national exit poll, there were 40 percent more black women than black men, and in California there were 50 percent more. But gay marriage advocates need to hone their strategy to reach them.

How about some absolute numbers?  Because I feel like this article is intended to keep the focus on Black folks as the problem. Paralleling the 60s civil rights movement is still the first form of legitimization used by American social movements. There are two ways of breaking that perceived alignment: proving there actually is no alignment (which is not the method Mr. Blow has decided on) or asserting Black folks' denial of that alignment.

The article Mr. Blow linked in his first paragraph shows gay folk understand what the issue was.

If exit polling is to be believed, seventy per cent of California’s African-American voters did indeed vote yes on Prop. 8, as did upward of eighty per cent of Republicans, conservatives, white evangelicals, and weekly churchgoers. But the initiative would have passed, barely, even if not a single African-American had shown up at the polls.

The problem? Call it the REAL Bradley Effect. 

Still, this was a fight that should have been won, and after the initial shock—which tempted a few gay and lesbian voices to blame blacks for what O’Reilly credited them with—California’s gay activists and their straight allies, judging from their online postmortems, have begun to direct more criticism at themselves than at their opponents. They were complacent: early polls had shown Prop. 8 losing by double digits. Their television ads were timid and ineffective, focussing on worthy abstractions like equality and fairness, while the other side’s were powerfully emotional. (Also dishonest—they implied that gay marriage would threaten churches’ tax exemptions, force church-affiliated adoption agencies to place children with gay couples, and oblige children to attend gay weddings—but that sort of thing was to be expected.) Barack Obama, like Governor Arnold Schwarzenegger, had come out against Prop. 8, yet the No-on-8 forces let Obama’s popularity be used against them: a mass mailing suggesting that the Democratic nominee was for it went essentially unanswered.

How is this helped by focusing attention on Black women? Unless your goal is to distract, it is not helped by focusing on Black women at all.

How does one tie the discredited "Black Men On The Down Low" phenomenon to Black women voting against marriage rights for gay folks?

More specifically, blacks overwhelmingly say that homosexuality isn’t morally acceptable. So many black men hide their sexual orientations and engage in risky behavior. This has resulted in large part in black women’s becoming the fastest-growing group of people with H.I.V.In a 2003 study of H.I.V.-infected people, 34 percent of infected black men said they had sex with both men and women, while only 6 percent of infected black women thought their partners were bisexual. Tragic. (In contrast, only 13 percent of the white men in the study said they had sex with both men and women, while 14 percent of the white women said that they knew their partners were bisexual.)

Incidentally, a survey that excludes a third of the nation (only 33 states with long-term, confidential name-based HIV reporting) is somewhat misleading.

Why isn't he heaping this dung on conservative white evangelicals? Not only did they vote against Prop. 8 in greater proportion than Black folks, but in far greater numbers. And why is he suggesting approaches to Black women that will harden the opposition of the white conservative evangelicals who ACTUALLY defeated Prop. 8?

Then, make it part of a broader discussion about the perils of rigidly applying yesterday’s sexual morality to today’s sexual mores. Show black women that it backfires. The stigma doesn’t erase the behavior, it pushes it into the shadows where, devoid of information and acceptance, it become more risky.

Because Mr. Blow is hostile to the effort himself.

High dudgeon & fit of pique

... were my first reactions. I may be calm enough to post now. My overall take was, if "[w]e now know that blacks probably didn’t tip the balance for Proposition 8," why does Blow waste the column inches? Why bother? His assumptions are too many and and presumption is too great, but obviously he has managed to hit a hot button. What first set me off was this:

(2) This high rate of church attendance by blacks informs a very conservative moral view. While blacks vote overwhelmingly Democratic, an analysis of three years of national data from Gallup polls reveals that their views on moral issues are virtually indistinguishable from those of Republicans.

Unfortunately for Blow's (and/or Gallup's) reasoning, the "moral issues" are so constrictively defined that they exclude one obvious area-- race-- that would apply to this aspect of the Prop 8 discussion. I would include things such as racial equality on any reasonable list of "moral issues," and then I suspect we'd see quite a difference between most black voters and Palin-lovin' Republicans.

And Blow's vast knowledge of how black women think has pretty much floored me:

Women who can’t find a man to marry might not be thrilled about the idea of men marrying each other.

I guess there are people who really believe that men who want to marry each other are, in spite of that, eligible bachelors for women. Such bachelors can be "fixed" by religion or by the right woman, the theory goes.

I also take umbrage at Blow's broader assumption that this is all about black women and man issues. I think this is his issue. I wonder what black women (straight, lesbian, other) may think of women getting married. The concept doesn't seem to fit into where he was going with his column. (NY Times comments are closed for the article so further discussion must take place outside the castle walls.)

This article rubbed me the

This article rubbed me the wrong way as well. For me it was just about the whole "let's trick black people into supporting gay rights by rewording our arguments". Who is he talking to? Doesn't he think black people read the NY Times too? It's like talking about someone while they're standing right there. That's just really poor taste.

Prior History: Proposition 6 (aka the Briggs Initiative)

"California Proposition 6, more commonly known as The Briggs Initiative, was an initiative on the California State ballot in November of 1978. Sponsored by John Briggs, a conservative state legislator from Orange County, the failed initiative would have banned gays and lesbians, and possibly anyone who supported gay rights, from working in California's public schools. The Briggs Initiative was the first failure in a conservative movement that started with the successful campaign headed by Anita Bryant and her organization Save Our Children in Dade County, Florida to repeal a local gay rights ordinance."

Following the defeat of this scurrilous piece of proposed legislation 30 years ago I sat down and crunched the numbers for those precincts in San Francisco that had either a substantial (at least 40 percent) number of black residents or a substantial majority (at least 60 percent or more) of black residents. The votes against Proposition 6 in those precincts was over 60 percent which mirrored the votes against this proposition in every other section of the city deemed to be either liberal or Democratic save for those precincts with large numbers of gay and lesbian voters where the tally against the Briggs Initiative was considerably higher.

For me it was just about the

For me it was just about the whole "let's trick black people into supporting gay rights by rewording our arguments".

Not the point.

Attempts to sell gay people' marriage rights to Black women in the terms he suggests will put off even more white folks that the original proposal did. These conversations don't take place in the vacuum our pundits pretend they do.

The point is to address Black folks on the issue in ways that convince the white folks that REALLY defeated the proposition that the proposition (and Black folks) is even more alien than they thought.

The point is to address

The point is to address Black folks on the issue in ways that convince the white folks that REALLY defeated the proposition that the proposition (and Black folks) is even more alien than they thought.

Yes, I see what you mean. I think I'm not quite cynical enough for that to have jumped out at me :-)

Anyway, I've been highly skeptical of that exit poll data since the get go. In fact, looking at the actual numbers now, I see that about 224 black people were polled. It is so ridiculous that all the hype about this is based on 224 people. For all we know that could have been one church group. And unless I've known some very atypical black women (and men), the idea that [straight] black women are twice as intolerant to GLBT issues as [straight] black men is laughable.

This site best viewed with a jaundiced eye