What he said

At the moment I'm having trouble remembering what Abiola and I disagreed on.

Deregulation, that's right. That, and fact son the ground about Haiti. Obviously is wasn't anything having to do with how to treat folks.



Attack of the LGFers

For me, the strange thing about the sheer level of hatred and intolerance of dissenting viewpoints displayed by LGF commenters on questions relating to the Middle East and Islam is that, unlike most of these people, I've spent years living in a majority muslim environment, have seen the dark side of Islamic zealotry at first-hand, and yet, I've managed to avoid developing a generalized hatred of all things Islamic of the kind on show at LGF or "Emperor Misha." In fact, I'm willing to bet that the average Israeli, despite living daily with the threat of being killed by Islamic fanatics while going about his or her daily business, harbors less hatred for Islam than your run-of-the-mill LGFer.

…As I've said before, Islam as practiced by the majority of muslims in our day really does have serious problems, which aren't just confined to "a small minority", as the usual cant on this issue goes. Nevertheless, mindless hatred and dehumanization of all muslims will do absolutely nothing to move things forward to a state where the most we'll have to worry about from religious muslims will be phenomena like the Religious Right's never-ending attempts to get abortion outlawed and creationism into the schoolbooks; to the contrary, indiscriminate bashing of muslims as "vermin", "subhumans", "ragheads" and so forth is a surefire way to undermine any moral claims outsiders may seek to make with respect to the practice of Islam.

Posted by Prometheus 6 on April 16, 2004 - 10:34pm :: Seen online
 
 

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I don't share his negative view about Islam as a religion or of the majority of Muslims, but I'm glad to see some people speaking out against LGF and not just liberals.

Posted by  Al-Muhajabah (not verified) on April 17, 2004 - 5:23am.

Well, for my part I could swap out "Islam" and replace it with any organized religion you'd care to name. That's why that particular aspect of what he said isn't troubling to me.

Posted by  P6 (not verified) on April 17, 2004 - 8:05am.

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P6 has me pegged right. I don't believe in any religion, and I think virtually all of them are extremely dangerous when taken too seriously.

I'm well aware that Christianity has a past every bit as bloody as Islam's (as does Judaism, if the Old Testament book of Joshua is to be believed), so it isn't as if I'm saying that Islam as a belief system is inherently especially burdened by violent impulses.

The difference between Islam as I've seen it practiced today in much of the world (and I have personal knowledge on this topic from both the Gulf and West Africa) and modern Christianity is that few of the nominal "christians" in the Western world are willing to abide by their religion's tenets wherever those conflict with liberal values - and this is true even of the fundamentalists, who are more than willing to ignore those parts of the Bible that call for the stoning of adulteresses, the avoidance of shellfish, the seclusion of menstruating women and so forth, even if they hold onto passages condemning homosexuality. This is, as far as I'm concerned, a wonderful development, though a devout believer might see it as "religion lite."

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Posted by  Abiola Lapite (not verified) on April 17, 2004 - 4:44pm.

Obviously, each person's experiences will differ and my own experiences may be very different from someone else's. I'll only say that the Muslims I've met and known are like any other group: some are good, some are bad, and some are in between. I don't believe that there's a higher proportion of bad or a lower proportion of good than in a comparable group from any other religion.

This is not to deny that many parts of the Muslim world are profoundly dysfunctional. Many parts of the non-Muslim world are as well. I do my best to balance my religious beliefs with "liberal values" and I believe that the two can be compatible. I also do what I can (little though it may be) to speak up for that position to other Muslims that I may have contact with.

Posted by  Al-Muhajabah (not verified) on April 18, 2004 - 6:22pm.

I'll only say that the Muslims I've met and known are like any other group: some are good, some are bad, and some are in between.

Of course.

I tend to keep the properties of the doctrines seperate from those of the institutions that promulgate it and the people who believe it. Pretty much across the board I find the doctrine to be fine, the people to be unexceptional and the institutions to be just as much of a social thing as any other club.

Posted by  P6 (not verified) on April 18, 2004 - 8:44pm.

I can agree with that one :-)

I just get kind of twitchy when people start saying that the "majority" of some group are bad.

Posted by  Al-Muhajabah (not verified) on April 19, 2004 - 9:50pm.

Quite understandable.

Posted by  P6 (not verified) on April 19, 2004 - 10:41pm.