Is this something I needed to know?

Yeah, probably…

Quote of note:

Black soldiers are a particular target. 'To have Negroes occupying us is a particular humiliation,' Abu Mujahed said, echoing the profound racism prevalent in much of the Middle East. 'Sometimes we aborted a mission because there were no Negroes.'

'Why I turned against America'

…Early one morning this week, when the police have yet to set up too many checkpoints, Abu Mujahed will strap a mortar underneath a car, drive to a friend's in central Baghdad and bury the weapon in his garden. In the evening he will return with the rest of his group, sleep for a few hours and then take the weapon from its hiding place. He will calculate the range using the American military's own maps and satellite pictures -- bought in a bazaar -- and fire a few rounds at a military base or the US Embassy or at the Iraqi Prime Minister's office. Then Abu Mujahed will shower, change and, by 10am, be at his desk in one of the major ministries.

…Intelligence experts in Iraq talk of three main types of insurgent. There is the Mehdi Army of Shia Muslims who follow the radical cleric Moqtada al-Sadr and have led recent resistance to coalition forces in northern Baghdad, the central shrine city of Najaf, and Basra, the southern port under British control. There is also 'al-Qaeda' -- non-Iraqi militants who have come to Iraq to wage jihad. And finally the 'former regime loyalists', who are said to want the return of Saddam Hussein or, if that is impossible, his Baath party.

Abu Mujahed, worryingly for the analysts, fits into none of these easy categories. For a start, he was pro-American before the invasion. 'The only way to breathe under the old regime was to watch American films and listen to their music,' he said. He had been a Bon Jovi fan.

'It gave me a glimpse of a better life. When I heard that the Americans were coming to liberate Iraq I was very happy. I felt that I would be able to live well, travel and have freedom. I wanted to do more sport, get new appliances and a new car and develop my life. I thought the US would come here and our lives would be changed through 180 degrees.'

He spoke of how his faith in the US was shaken when, via a friend's illicitly imported satellite TV system, he saw 'barbaric, savage' pictures of civilian casualties of the fighting and bombing. The next blow came in the conflict's immediate aftermath, as looters ran unchecked through Baghdad.

'When I saw the American soldiers watching and doing nothing as people took everything, I began to suspect the US was not here to help us but to destroy us,' he said.

Abu Mujahed, whose real name is not known by The Observer, said: 'I thought it might be just the chaos of war but it got worse, not better.'

He was not alone and swiftly found that many in the Adhamiya neighbourhood of Baghdad shared his anger and disappointment. The time had come. 'We realised. We had to act.'

Nothing had been planned in advance. There has been speculation, and especially among American officials, that Saddam's henchmen had planned a 'guerrilla war' if defeated. But Abu Mujahed, who described himself as 'a Muslim but not religious', and the others in his group were not working to any plan. Everything they did was improvised. And each of his seven-man group had a different motive: 'One man was fighting for his nation, another for a principle, another for his faith.'

Significantly, his group contains several former soldiers, angry at the controversial demobilisation of the Iraqi military by the coalition last year. Others, like Abu Mujahed, have salaried government jobs. The cell is not part of any broader organisation and does not have a name, he said. 'We are just local people ... There is a sheikh who co-ordinates some of the various groups but I do not know who he is.'

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Posted by Prometheus 6 on September 13, 2004 - 10:30am :: War
 
 

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Incredible! I had no idea. Yeah, I needed to know this as well. I wonder if this is isolated or pervasive. I'll be looking into it further.

Posted by  Ray on September 13, 2004 - 2:51pm.

You find something deep, holla back.

Interestingly enough, it suggests a way to cut back on the violence in Iraq: send all the Black soldiers home.

Posted by  Prometheus 6 on September 13, 2004 - 5:23pm.

Well, America's and Britian's leading export is racism, but I know I saw statistics that %70 of US GIs killed have been white, about %15 black and %15 hispanic, but I guess CNN may have gotten that wrong.

Posted by  topdog04 (not verified) on September 13, 2004 - 7:12pm.

Not a surprise to me. Arabs almost universally look down on Blacks. Remember they have their own history of slavery of Africans.

Need we look further than Darfur to see this in practice?

Posted by  Walter (not verified) on September 13, 2004 - 7:13pm.

Maybe not. Remember, this is one guy talking about one cell in Iraq. Frankly, when you major means of attack are mortars and remote controlled explosives your casualty rates ARE going to be proportionally distributed.

My real concern is this guy having learned about the USofA via popular culture will have done nothinbg to soften his beliefs and may well have hardened them.

Posted by  Prometheus 6 on September 13, 2004 - 8:23pm.

You posted about a related issue back in January.

I hope we can avoid making sweeping generalizations about what "Arabs" are like. Yes, some Arabs are racist. And some are not. Just like any other group.

Posted by  Al-Muhajabah on September 13, 2004 - 11:36pm.

I understand the concern and I won't let that happen here.

Posted by  Prometheus 6 on September 14, 2004 - 12:51am.

Thanks, bro.

The definition of who is an Arab is anybody who speaks the Arabic language as their mother tongue. That's it. There are about 200 million Arabs by this definition. There are Arabs who are white, Arabs who are black (like the ones in Darfur, by the way), and Arabs who are every color in between. Most Arabs are Muslim, but there are Arabs who are Christian, Jewish, and other religions too. The different Arab countries, and countries with substantial Arab populations (like Sudan) have very different historical experiences. There are Arabs who are urban, Arabs who are pastoral or rural, and Arabs who are nomadic. There are probably greater cultural differences among these three groups than there are between urban Westerners and urban Arabs.

It just boggles my mind that someone, while condemning racism, can make a sweeping statement like that "Arabs universally look down on blacks". Walter, how many Arabs have you met?

Posted by  Al-Muhajabah on September 14, 2004 - 2:00am.

I feel the need to expand on that last one-liner.

I have met the occasional Arab…far too few to generalize from, but one of them is a Fullbright scholar and an expert on American media in Egypt. Hence my understanding and concern about this guy knowing America only from movies and music. I've been pretty thoroughly informed on the type of error that causes.

Then there's the previous article on black Iraqis you reminded us of. And Sudan. So I wasn't surprised to read of racism. It was the intensity of it...and intensity which, as I consider it *right now* makes no sense. An everyday guy like Abu Mujahed is supposed to be, driven to warfare to protect his home, I can't picture him calling off an effective attack for so trivial a reason.

Still, there is a problem there at least as intense as the one I keep whining about in the USofA. Might be better to compare it to North America.

Posted by  Prometheus 6 on September 14, 2004 - 4:53am.

I definitely don't excuse what this guy said. Like I said, there are definitely Arabs who are very racist.

It would be interesting to know more context about this incident. I'm sure he said a lot more in the interview than they had space to print, so it would be interesting to know if he said anything else. Did he express racist attitudes about other people or groups? Did he give any further reason for his feelings?

We're looking at very thin slice of the person in this interview. Psychoanalyzing him on the basis of it, much less trying to draw conclusions about anybody other than him, is probably doomed to failure. We just don't know enough. We know he's a racist jerk, but without knowing more, there's no way to say whether or not his attitudes might be common among others.

I have a friend whose family comes from India who has friends and relatives who've worked in Saudi Arabia, and she says that in Saudi Arabia, there's a lot of racism against people from India, Pakistan, and Bangladesh. And Saudi Arabia imports a lot of immigrant workers from these countries. Actually, from the things I've read, Saudi laws treat everybody like crap if they aren't Saudi, even other Arabs. So it's not just about Arabs and blacks.

I also have to say that racism is only one of many problems in many Arab countries. I think it's a complex mix of factors. Part of it is historical, because of attitudes towards African slaves. But also, people who feel powerless to change their situation often seek out some even more powerless group to blame it on. So the circumstances could exacerbate feelings that are already there.

Just to round things out, here's a quote from the Prophet Muhammad from his last sermon:

All mankind is from Adam and Eve, an Arab has no superiority over a non-Arab nor a non-Arab has any superiority over an Arab; also a white has no superiority over a black nor a black has any superiority over white except by piety and good action

Posted by  Al-Muhajabah on September 14, 2004 - 6:28am.

TrackBack from Al-Muhajabah's Islamic Blogs:

I haven't been posting to this blog the last couple of days, but I've been having an interesting discussion in......

Posted by  Al-Muhajabah's Islamic Blogs (not verified) on September 14, 2004 - 6:39am.

Al-Muhajabah,

Let me first say that I meant in no way to offend you. I also didn't mean to imply that all Arabs dislikes Blacks. In fact I have known and know quite a few Arabs. I have eaten with, lived, dated, and even gone to the mosque with Arabs. I also, know that Arabs come in all colors. Yes, the Arabs killing and raping in Darfur are as Black as those they are persecuting. What I meant with the term universally is that you find disdain among Arabs for "negros" in all Arab societies. Those in Africa as well as the middle east. I have found that the worst offenders are often those from countries with the highest population of Africans, like Oman or the Sudan. Similarly, you find levels of racism higher among Europeans say in Britain than you do in say Finland (at least in my experience).

So don't lump me in with the average ignorant American who is clueless to the world. I know a little of what I am talking about.

Posted by  walter (not verified) on September 14, 2004 - 7:05am.

BTW, that should read eaten with instead of eaten...
Just so there;e no confusion :-)

Posted by  walter (not verified) on September 14, 2004 - 7:07am.

You could edit your own comment if you register.

Just sayin', nahmsayin?

Posted by  Prometheus 6 on September 14, 2004 - 12:18pm.

We're looking at very thin slice of the person in this interview. Psychoanalyzing him on the basis of it, much less trying to draw conclusions about anybody other than him, is probably doomed to failure. We just don't know enough.

I get to point out I mentioned we're only talking one guy in one cell.

I used to watch raw video feeds from Reuters. Unfortunately they're not the kind of thing I archive. When the Haiti mess was live there were videos of crowds jumping and chanting...only I saw the same crowd in the raw feed and it was some ten kids the cameramen lined up and the street around them was deserted.

Getting media attention is critical nowadays and the media is very uncritical.

It makes SO little sense to cancel a mission because you'll only kill white folks that I'm starting to lean toward filing this in the propaganda cabinet.

Posted by  Prometheus 6 on September 14, 2004 - 12:56pm.

TrackBack from Negrophile:

It has taken a genocide in Darfur, where hundreds of thousands have been killed in a brutal campaign of ethnic cleansing and countless more continue to die in disease-ridden refugee camps, to force influential segments of the black activist community......

Posted by  Negrophile (not verified) on September 14, 2004 - 1:22pm.

The individual who made the statements regarding his antipathy toward Negroes and his sense of shame at having Negroes invade and occupy his country did, in fact, make these statements. While it is undoubtedly true that he was not speaking for all Arabs and that all Arabs don't share his viewpoint, it is highly probable that his views, no matter how repugnant they may be, truthfully reflect the feelings of many Arab people toward Negroes. Searching for additional context or trying to decipher some hidden or transcendant meaning in the speaker's remarks seems like a search for some element that might excuse or justify his comments. It may make little sense to cancel a mission because the target does not include any Negroes but there are stranger things that have happened in war.

Posted by  PTCruiser on September 14, 2004 - 3:28pm.

While it is undoubtedly true that he was not speaking for all Arabs and that all Arabs don't share his viewpoint, it is highly probable that his views, no matter how repugnant they may be, truthfully reflect the feelings of many Arab people toward Negroes.

Not very different from what we say about the USofA. I have no issues with this statement.

Understand, though, that accepting this level of racism as a generality would be something of sea change. I don't accept it of white people in America. Neither do I deny the racism in America, and I know a lot more white folks than Arab folks so I'm not denying it in them either.

Searching for additional context or trying to decipher some hidden or transcendant meaning in the speaker's remarks seems like a search for some element that might excuse or justify his comments.

No, that's just me trying to get The Big Picture as usual.

<set mode="Chaos Lord" state="on" />
It is an error to disregard known relevant side effects. Especially since political operatives depend on side effects to get their job done. You'll note the direct statements are generally far less self-serving than the actual outcome of the positions being supported.

Also, as a general rule I conclude nothing based solely on verbal reports other than "This person is reporting this to be true."
<set mode="Mortal" state="on" />

Posted by  Prometheus 6 on September 14, 2004 - 4:12pm.

Walter, thanks for your response. I think that the two of us don't actually disagree that much, we're just phrasing ourselves in different ways. Most Arab countries seem to be pretty dysfunctional. Racism, anti-Semitism, sexism, you name it.

As for the rest, I'm with brother P6 on that.

Posted by  Al-Muhajabah on September 14, 2004 - 9:57pm.

Salam ,
I found this discussion rather interesting since it concerns my people. I'm a fellow Muslimah , from Saudi Arabia. I think I would have to agree with most of what you have here. I'm also pretty sure that what Abu-Mujahed had said was surely taken out of context until it sounded that way. No person in his right mind would say something like that to himself, let alone to the public. Anyways I agree with most of what sister "AlMuhajabah", and bro "Prometheus" posted except for when points about Saudi Arabia had been stated. First of all, many people who are Saudi by nationality and citizenship are negroes. In fact, my best friend is one. I never imagined bringing this up. It seems all too arrogant for me to point out. I mean, it was never an issue, so I really am amazed at this discussion. I just felt like I had to, in order to prove to you that no such thing exists in Saudi Arabia (racism against negroes). Maybe it once did, but has been gone since long, long ago. From my point of view, it's even better here for them than in the states.
And as for Almuhajabah's comments ,well, while, I do concede that laws here aren't very fair to our imported workers, I would just like to point out that nowadays most laws are just unfair period. Sure, they're extra complicated for foriegners, but they're almost as complicated for Saudis too. This coming from a 100% (tribal and beduoin) Saudi....with connections might I add! .
Princes and princesses (who make up about 6000 of the population!)are being treated just fine though, so don't you worry. And yes you're right, Im very sad to say that Arab GOVERNMENTS (which is the word you forgot to use, sis) are very, in fact, VERY dysfunctional. But, the people are well aware and understand this quite well. As a matter of fact, there are many movements against the house of Saud and its counterparts (try visiting www.islahi.net). I guess "Saudi" (and Co.) are just heading to a downfall. And I guess AlSaud knows it. They're just enjoying it while it lasts and to its fullest.
Any who, what really compelled me to post this is Al-Muhajabah's claim that Asian workers are treated like trash by Saudi's. I wouldnt know if it actually does happen, but for the most part, I respect and even admire them. Especially since most of our university's educational staff are Pakistani, Indian.. etc. it would be hard to look down on them, for me or for anybody else. As for people who look down on people with the more menial jobs, well, what can I say? They're just uneducated, ignorant imbeciles who have nothing better to do with their time. And I guess those kind of people exist in all countries. But judging from what I see,I can assure you, that the number of people who act that way nowadays, is relatively low.
I'm sure that friend of yours hasn't been here since the 80's.
Thank you.
-Farah...

Posted by  Farah (not verified) on October 4, 2004 - 11:53am.

Thanks for adding all that information, sister Farah. I do think that the laws passed by the Saudi government are very unfair, but as to the amount of racism in Saudi society, the only evidence on that is anecdotal. Some people say there's a lot, some people say there's a little, based on their own experiences.

Posted by  Al-Muhajabah on October 5, 2004 - 12:44am.