Prometheus 6

So Libertarianism, which I understand takes the laissez faire approach to getting the government's hands off the people, is defined by the above quote I referenced from that famous poem? If so, than its philosophy is Poppycock too. But the above was never the pure definition I had of the 'tarians, so correct me if I'm wrong. I love how you chalk everything up to my age...clever.

Not "poppycock too.."

Just poppycock. It doesn't represent liberal morality at all. A person's morality is about what they do, not just what they allow.

As for whether it's the pure definition of Libertarianism, I doubt you've ever been given that as the pure definition of progressive morality...at least, not by a progressive.

No, I haven't been given that as the clear definition for liberal morality, nor did I suggest that it was such. I said it "applies here". Big difference. And the reference wasn't that sole quote, it was the poem in its entirety. That poem "The Creed of the Modern Thinker" (swap 'Modern' for 'Progressive'), addresses the idea that morality is ever-changing. A moving target, if you will. According to the concept of liberalism, personal choice trumps any type of moral throughline.

In other news, I just came across the comments in this post: http://www.prometheus6.org/node/6287 (the devish html thingy doesn't work)

"Did I break into explosive hysteria when Ambra called Andrew Sullivan a liberal?"

I feel the need to clarify one thing: I never said Andrew "the movie The Incredibles was too moral and Conservative" Sullivan. I said he was a confused moderate. Again, big difference. And as far as I'm concerned, his more recent op-eds over the last 3 months have only solidified my suspicions. Watch and see...it'll be a slow process, but IMHO, Sully doesn't even fully believe what he says he does...watch.

No, I haven't been given that as the clear definition for liberal morality, nor did I suggest that it was such. I said it "applies here". Big difference.

Some difference. Not to get too petty, but I never suggested you suggested your quote was the pure or clear definition of liberal morality.

You strongly imply though, so my response is equally full of implication.

I feel the need to clarify one thing: I never said Andrew "the movie The Incredibles was too moral and Conservative" Sullivan. I said he was a confused moderate.

And from your perspective, the difference is...

I am amused by the admission moderates would have to be confused to disagree with the Conservative position. Although here you acknowledge Conservatives can be confused too. I think y'all always are, but that's me.

And yes the dialogs for the wysiwyg editor are not making me happy. It's been a long time since I worked enough Javascript to hack into it and fix it and I have other coding priorities right now anyway. I'm only not stressed because I get limited comments nowadays. I think it's because of stereotype threat.

You are asking me what the difference is between calling someone a Liberal vs. a Moderate? I think the difference is clear there.

When I called Sully a "confused moderate", I was not implying that moderates are confused, but rather implying that HE is, and "confused" is only the adjective that describes him being a moderate. I'd have placed that adjective in front of whatever his political position du jour. "Andrew Sullivan is a confused Libertarian, Confused Conservative, Confused White Man etc..." The point isn't his position, it's that he's confused. But as of what I currently see, his confusion exists on the more moderate side of politics as I don't believe him to be the gay hope of the Right everyone claims him to be, no matter how "Fiscally Conservative" he is. Blah dee blah dee blah. But enough with the superficial labels, they're making my brain hurt.

Well, that does clarify your intent. And for what it's worth I agree Sullivan is confused. His economic position, cultural stance, social class, everything screams Conservative Republican, but the physical reality of his existance is rejected by the party. He's chosen the world over his own nature.