One of those random thoughts

by Prometheus 6
April 26, 2005 - 11:07am.
on About me, not you | Random rant

Suppose you owned a factory. You make world-class widgets as a step in manufacturing a product for a market you've dominated years.

Suppose someone else also makes widgets for their product in a different market. Their widgets are aren't as good as yours, but they're made by a different process at significantly less cost.

Do you adapt their widget technology, maybe putting a little more expense in to bring it up to your quality standards? Do you buy widgets from them?

Suppose the widgets are people?

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Submitted by dwshelf on April 26, 2005 - 4:20pm.

It's not usually your decision.

The market, the people buying your product decide for you by their choices.

Suppose the widgets are people?

By what criteria can we designate one person blessed, while another is designated a threat to the blessed one?

 

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Submitted by Quaker in a Basement on April 26, 2005 - 4:23pm.
Depends.

What's your primary objective? To minimize production cost? To maximize profit? To enhance the company's reputation? To support the community where you have a factory?

Is this a startup? Or does the company have a long history? How are the current employees paid? Do they have any agreements or obligations that bind them to the company? Does the company owe the workers any loyalty?

Given that you didn't provide any of that information, I'll make some assumptions: The company I make decisions for (the hypothetical one I run while I'm in the tub) exists to provide jobs to support families in the hypothetical town where I live. It's a Bedford Falls sort of place except I get to be George Bailey, not Jimmy Stewart. Sure, the other guys can crank out widgets cheaper, but the money I pay my people to make widgets is offset by the pride my people take in making a great product. The money I pay 'em gets spent at the local hardware store, supermarket, and drug store, and helps feed the people who work in those stores. Lower costs? How does it profit a man to gain the world and lose his soul?

Now you'll have to 'scuse me. Donna Reed is humming "Buffalo Gals" again. You know what that means.
Submitted by Prometheus 6 on April 26, 2005 - 4:28pm.

Suppose the factory is the USofA, the product is our economy and the widgets are educated citizens.

That is a valid parallel, isn't it?

Submitted by Quaker in a Basement on April 26, 2005 - 5:19pm.
Of course it's a valid parallel.

Businesses, no make that large multinational corporations are no longer tied to any community or even any nation. They exist as entities without boundaries. They exist with one--and only one--imperative: shareholder value.

If the management of a corporation--let's say General Electric, just for example--perceives no duty, no obligation to the citizens of the U.S. and their mission is to create value for shareholders worldwide, why would they pay more than they must for paper clips or copper or software or even executives?

When the corporation is no longer an American company or a British company or a Canadian company or a company of any country, it becomes a nation unto itself and owes allegiance only to itself. That corporation will replace an American worker with an Indian worker, then replace that worker with an Indonesian worker all for the gain of a penny within a transaction of a thousand dollars.

Good God, now I'm starting to sound like the character Ned Beatty played in Network.
Submitted by cnulan on April 26, 2005 - 7:01pm.

A short time ago, but in a galaxy far, far away...., the one-and-only sphinx of the cotton field (bollweevil) noted concerning capitalism;

consider: capitalism is the creation of markets for Murkan goods at any cost.

question: what exactly *are* "Murkan goods" these days when

1) we get most of our stuff from elsewhere,

2) we exclude the arms trade, hollywood movies, and rap music.

(one) answer: construction, or if you're willing to think on multiple levels: THE PRODUCTION OF SPACE. what goes on in the spaces that capitalism produces is *secondary* to the fundamental engine of 0wning land and 0rganizing the volume above and below it. on the consumer end that most of us occupy it looks like the point of capitalism is to provide us with more and more options when it comes to coffee products, cel phones, cars, etc. but that's simply us looking through the wrong end of the telescope.

what gets put into boxes is irrelevant to a system that is chiefly concerned with building boxes.

think about it.

this is, incidentally, not a party specific question though party specific answers can be generated -- which is really just a big fat distraction since politics is merely MENTAL SPACE, produced and leased by capitalism like any other space...

think about it.

Submitted by gn on April 26, 2005 - 10:22pm.

"Suppose the factory is the USofA, the product is our economy and the widgets are educated citizens.

That is a valid parallel, isn't it?"

 
The problem is that the other company manufacturing widgets, namely economies like those of China and India, are not necessarily producing inferior widgets.  Cheaper, but not necessarily inferior, particularly if we look at the long-term horizon.

While  we subject our children to theocratic, zealot arguments about whether the earth is flat (aka "intelligent design"), other emerging economies are ensuring that their students are learning the lastest in science, math, and technology.

Submitted by dwshelf on April 27, 2005 - 3:43pm.

consider: capitalism is the creation of markets for Murkan goods at any cost.

These days, capitalism is what happens if you just leave people to make their own decisions.

There was a time when that was not so.  A time when religious beliefs, unenlightened authority, and lack of various infrastructure precluded widespread commerce.

However, the successes of capitalism make it unlikely that we'll ever voluntarily give it up.

Submitted by Quaker in a Basement on April 27, 2005 - 3:43pm.
I guess what I'm saying is your analogy breaks down if what you call "The American Economy" includes companies that are no longer American.

Yeah, Wal-Mart is based in Arkansas, but does that make it an "American" company? Not necessarily, I'd argue. They'll sell out the workers in an American factory in a tiny second if it improves the company's bottom line. The company exists for itself, for its owners and and for its shareholders. It treats its own employees and the employees of its suppliers as interchangeable, negotiable components of its cash flow. My problem is this: if I count these companies out as part of the American economy, what does that leave?
Submitted by cnulan on April 27, 2005 - 10:58pm.
There was a time when that was not so. A time when religious beliefs, unenlightened authority, and lack of various infrastructure precluded widespread commerce.
About that *infrastructure*.., absent western media, the demand generation which you call leaving people to make their own decisions would not exist. Time to go into the religious or noospheric aspects of the Murkan psychotechnology called capitalism - once again - the Sphinx of the Cotton Field;

again: captialism is about PRODUCING SPACE. including HEADSPACE.

To suggest an American information strategy for the 21st century, John Arquilla and David Ronfeldt drew inspiration from the prophetic writings of a French soldier, paleontologist, and Jesuit theologian of the early 20th century, Pierre Teilhard de Chardin (TAY-yar DUH Shar-DAN). The controversial writings of Teilhard during World War I and the 1920s were censored by the Vatican but published posthumously in the 1950s and 1960s. He asserted that evolution and Christianity, far from being at odds with each other, are in fact part of the same process: the evolution of a benign spiritual force through increasingly complex forms of material life on earth. Teilhard foresaw that human beings would rise to a new evolutionary plane characterized by the global coordination of intellectual, social, and spiritual energies. He called this higher plane the "noosphere" (NEW-oh-sphere), defining it as an all-encompassing realm of the mind (from the Greek noos, or "mind"). Teilhard predicted that this realm would eventually supersede the prior evolutionary realms of the geosphere and the biosphere as the supreme milieu of the spirit on earth. Today, Teilhard is occasionally credited with anticipating the Internet.

which along with the resource appropriation strategy, is precisely why the Murkan hegemon has launched into a planet spanning culture war...,

However, the successes of capitalism make it unlikely that we'll ever voluntarily give it up.
The power of Madison Avenue psychotechnology to fill a human head with vacuous automatized mush, and the coercive projection of much of the infrastructure over which that power is projected into human minds, seeks to ensure that these minds never acquire the volitional wherewithal to give up the consumerist addictions which typify Murkan success.

Images of N!xau come to mind here...,

Much of what you'd doubtless fancy as freedom, is really nothing more than propaganda or psychotechnologically mediated culturocide....,
Submitted by dwshelf on April 28, 2005 - 3:47pm.

Ah cnunlan it's good to see you back in form.

  Much of what you'd doubtless fancy as freedom, is really nothing more than propaganda or psychotechnologically mediated culturocide....,

Here's an example of freedom: I choose to spend more time interacting with you and others here at P6 than I spend watching television.  Propoganda sometimes appears, but is effectively countered.  Culturocide, I've not observed.

Now what was that Janet Jackson was selling back in the Superbowl? 

Submitted by cnulan on April 28, 2005 - 4:44pm.
Ah cnunlan it's good to see you back in form.
are you sure you can take time away from the jumping fundamentalist repartee taking place on yonder thread? (: Fundamentalist theology is always richly entertaining in an "angels dancing on the head of a pin" sort of way...,
Here's an example of freedom: I choose to spend more time interacting with you and others here at P6 than I spend watching television. Propoganda sometimes appears, but is effectively countered. Culturocide, I've not observed.
The Vietnam War as with the wholesale destruction of antiquities in Iraq would be examples of active culturocide. We were, however, talking about Murkan criminality in the context of the mythology of free markets, weren't we?
Suppose you owned a factory. You make world-class widgets as a step in manufacturing a product for a market you've dominated years. Suppose someone else also makes widgets for their product in a different market. Their widgets are aren't as good as yours, but they're made by a different process at significantly less cost. Do you adapt their widget technology, maybe putting a little more expense in to bring it up to your quality standards? Do you buy widgets from them? Suppose the widgets are people?

My response to the original random thought went to the why and wherefore traditional cultures accept the monstrosity of Murkan-ness....,

the overwhelming genius of Murkan force or fraud or the ever popular psychotechnologically abetted combination thereof.
Submitted by dwshelf on April 29, 2005 - 4:42am.

We were, however, talking about Murkan criminality in the context of the mythology of free markets, weren't we?

Near as I can recall, you're the only one who talks about Murkans. No one else knows quite what the hell you're talking about, but it's easy to grasp the tone and share a sense of vague hostility toward Murkans.  I sure don't like 'em, they're not my kind.

Re: culturocide. You seen any around here?  I'd like to meet it in in person, or as close as we get.  I imagine I have a chance to civilize it.

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The way copy/paste works with this editor is awesome. It's simply, but elegantly correct for the context.