User loginLive Discussions
Most popular threads
Weekly Archives
Blog linksA Skeptical Blog |
We readTip jarFor entertainment onlyThe Public LibraryReality checksNews sourcesLink CollectionsDropping KnowledgeLibrary of Congress African American Odyssey Who's new
Who's onlineThere are currently 2 users and 16 guests online.
Online users
... |
Nice work, Shelby!Submitted by Prometheus 6 on May 2, 2006 - 8:20pm.
on Culture wars | For the Democrats | Politics | Race and Identity I wasn't going to comment on White Guilt and the Western Past because you weren't messing with Black folks' head for a change. But I must say, I am impressed. You started like a true fan of Prometheus 6.
And then, this wonderfully skilled conceptual remapping:
Understand this: it's called guilt whether you feel guilty or not. Not just that...how many people do YOU know that lack moral authority and act with no guilt whatsoever? But that doesn't matter if people don't catch it. And if they don't catch that, this
...identifying White Supremacy with White Guilt, is guaranteed to pass, setting them up for this. This leads even intelligent folks like Jeff Goldstein spouting nonsense like Which is why it is so essential that we as a culture work to defeat the institutionalized linguistic assumptions that, because they misunderstand signification, allow for both the stigmatization Steele points to and our acceptance of that stigmatization—the very thing that convinces us to accept guilt for the actions of others “like us” in the first place.Mr. Goldstein is fighting an "institutionalized linguistic assumption" Prof. Steele created on the fly! Since we've seen the assumption Prof. Steele made is, how shall we say it...bullshit, let's get rid of it as Mr. Goldstein requests.
And what do you know...when you use the right word, he's correct. By the way, I didn't miss the shot at the niggras at the end. But that's okay, it was a minor one. I know you couldn't help yourself.
Aren't you guilty of that in your reading of Steele's article? Were it my essay, I would have identified the guilt as cultural / liberal, not necessarily white, What is his meaning? What is his intent? You would have called it "liberal guilt" rather than "white guilt"...why? And why did he call it "white guilt"? I have the same issue with his formulation that I have with the "acting white" construct. It was created to inflame. And if you treat it as though it wasn't you are seperating meaning and intent. You're not fighting fire with fire, you're fighting it with gasoline.
Dude, you're talking to a Black guy. This mechanism is VERY familiar...and you're going for it again. Or spreading it..."from wherever it stems" is an evasion when discussing an article which purports to describe where it came from. Tell me where it came from, Jeff...then tell me you still agree with what Steele wrote. Truth to tell, though, I LOVE seeing the mechanism work on white folks, and seeing a Black guy flex it on you rather than vice versa. More proof (which, absurdly, we must provide far too often in Dobbsian discussions) that we're all the same machine. You cannot identify white guilt with white supremacy without some serious psychic gymnastics. The cheery impact of Steele's entire article, White Guilt and the Western Past, evaporates if you don't accept that faulty link. Also, Mark...if you're reading...
the guilt (from wherever it stems)Remember when I mentioned invalid expansion of references? I'd say this qualifies. Would you? (which have to do with untethering meaning from intent for purposes of interpretation)
I admit that I haven't kept up with developments in the field of linguistics but I am puzzled as to how one can remove meaning from intent and still have enough left over to offer a reasonably valid or plausible interpretation? Jeff is saying that separation is a problem...that we should consider white folks' intent as well as the meaning of their statements.
Shelby's writing, of course, is immune to the requirement. Jeff's "from wherever it stems" suggests he feels no need to personally connect meaning and intent either. Let me propose a different problem with what Steele wrote, if I may. He seems to be saying that we, as a nation, are reluctant to do what is right because we have a fear of repeating our past sins. (That, of course, is sometimes called learning, among those of us who are linguistically unsophisticated.) However, Steele forgets to tell us what it is we might be doing today if we weren't so handicapped by "guilt". Is he suggesting that our current level of violence against terrorist elements in Iraq is insufficient? What would be more effective? More troops? More shooting? More bombing? More detentions? More vigorous interrogation? Less restraint? Less concern for the safety of the civilians we're supposedly there to liberate? It's easy to generalize and declare that our actions are too restrained. It's quite more difficult to point to specific instances where this restraint is hindering our effort. His whole essay sounds to me like those politicians who tell us that the solution to crime is to "get tough," but who never seem to get around to telling us just what that means. I shipped Shelby his crack pipe on May 1. He started smoking right away and put this down on the laptop. It's fairly standard, but it's ahistorical as all hell. Guilt is hardly part of the equation. Would that be CEO-guilt, General-guilt, Admiral-guilt, Commander-guilt, NavySeal-guilt, CIA-guilt, NSA-guilt or Shelby needs a new topic-guilt?
Sure. You never know who might need it, and I know what EYE saw hurts a lot of folks to have to consider. Orcinus has an interesting post on the current "end of racism" blather emanating from Shelby et al. Check it out here. "Possibly white guilt's worst effect is that it does not permit whites--and nonwhites--to appreciate something extraordinary: the fact that whites in America, and even elsewhere in the West, have achieved a truly remarkable moral transformation. One is forbidden to speak thus, but it is simply true. There are no serious advocates of white supremacy in America today, because whites see this idea as morally repugnant. If there is still the odd white bigot out there surviving past his time, there are millions of whites who only feel goodwill toward minorities." Shelby's been lugging that piss bucket around for decades without showing any sign of wearying. All it took was the call from his masters—"Oh pissboy" ... "Pissboy, over here"—and he’d trot over, shivering in orgasmic delight at the sounds of those Brooks Brothers tailored zippers coming down and cooing over every stinking yellow rivulet he collected without spilling a single precious drop. His is an unequaled record of carrying water for all sorts of bigots and extremists (although it’s rumored John McWhorter is vying to wear the pissboy crown). But, apparently, in his dotage, Shelby aspires to a greater role than port-o-potty for bigots. He has now become the self-appointed, self-anointed "conscience of white America." And in his new role he clamors for buckets of blood. His message: history is dead; whites have nothing to be guilty about so let the bombs drop and the bullets fly. The past (slavery, imperialism, colonialism) doesn’t matter anymore because millions of whites “only feel goodwill toward minorities.” Such feelings grant them the moral authority they need to kill whomever they feel threatens their interests or those who simply need a reminder from time to time of who is boss. Guilt, under such circumstances, is unnecessary and even counter-productive—Shelby proclaims this to all and sundry, to anyone willing to listen to his slurred speech and endure his piss-tainted breath. Such tortured logic only could be the result of drinking from his own bucket. And now piss-drunk and pissed off at his masters for their failures to commit even greater crimes against humanity, he reels about in a drunken rage splashing his own piss all over the pages of America’s right-wing papers and journals. Poor Shelby fails to realize so-called “whites” are the minority. Their day as overlords of the planet is coming to a swift end and with it his job as human chamber pot. But until the next sunrise puts him out his misery, poor Shelby will continue to dream his dreams of piss and blood in the servants quarters of the Hoover Institute, clinging vainly to his rust-eaten bucket, muttering: …”my precious, my precious…” Even Rush Limpdick loves Shelby's pissboy routine. You have to read down to the middle of the piece to find the reference. |
|
Actually, you've identified the wrong linguistic assumptions that I believe we are fighting against. Note that I say those linguistic assumptions (which have to do with untethering meaning from intent for purposes of interpretation) allow for both the stigmatization Steele points to and our acceptance of that stigmatization. Were it my essay, I would have identified the guilt as cultural / liberal, not necessarily white, but my point was simply that the guilt (from wherever it stems) only works on us because we have accepted certain dubious ideas. I cover this in the footnote to the post. If you think it's nonsense, that's okay with me. I know several critical theorists whom I've debated who would agree with that assessment. To be fair, though, I know many who would agree, too -- and their names are quite well respected in my specialty.