McWhorter is at it again...

Submitted by Prometheus 6 on October 9, 2005 - 5:18pm.
on

In his defense of Bill Bennett. John McWhorter makes a telling error. Again.

Many people are worried about what kinds of thoughts Mr. Bennett's comment might put into white people's heads. I am, too. For black Americans to take an innocent and well-meant sentence out of context and hold it up as a David Duke screensaver makes it look like black Americans are incapable of understanding context. It makes it look like we are incapable of close reasoning.

He somehow manages to say Black people's reaction to Bennett is responsible for white people's reaction to Bennett. This is logically flawed...yet...

What happens when you notice one white person has said or done something racist? Great hoardes of white folk leap to the actor's defense...thereby demonstrating that it's okay in the defender's heart and mind to say and do these offensive things (see The Campaign Against Political Correctness).

Because I don't want to be accused of being unfair I'll give you some more context...and a classic, rather than critical, error.

Now, it's true that the book does not make a racial argument. This is what gets a lot of people's dander up – the idea that Mr. Bennett is "stereotyping" by referring to black people at all. Congressman John Conyers is even calling for Mr. Bennett's suspension on the basis of this.

But to cry "stereotyping" here is to call legions of sociologists liars. Last I checked, a top item on the civil rights agenda was the epidemic of criminality among young black men.

In the '90s, black people were 13 percent of the population but were committing 42 percent of violent crimes. [P6: What's wrong with this picture?] Almost every big city in America has at least one task force of concerned black people dedicated to keeping young black men from falling into life on the streets. Gangsta rappers paint verbal pictures of young black criminals and tell us that this is all society allows them to be – and many black intellectuals, writers and ordinary folk celebrate them as bards of black America.

We all know that there are plenty of white criminals. We all know that the criminal justice system has its biases. But we also all know that there is a serious disproportion of young black criminals. Whatever we attribute that to, Mr. Bennett is not a racist to refer to the simple fact of it.

Many people are worried about what kinds of thoughts Mr. Bennett's comment might put into white people's heads. I am, too. For black Americans to take an innocent and well-meant sentence out of context and hold it up as a David Duke screensaver makes it look like black Americans are incapable of understanding context. It makes it look like we are incapable of close reasoning.

The insertion of race was unnecessary to make the point. If it wasn't one of those Freudian slips it was intentionally placed. Neither possibility speaks well of the man.

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Submitted by Temple3 on October 9, 2005 - 8:51pm.

I'm over McW...he's a buster. Next!

Submitted by Temple3 on October 9, 2005 - 8:58pm.

I like the post about Newark. Interesting stuff.

Submitted by Prometheus 6 on October 9, 2005 - 9:09pm.

McWhorter's a buster but he's one that keeps getting propped up. The Newark thing, where he lifted the events, changed the perps from cops to Black folks, and dropped the whole mess into the Watts riots, was what put me over the edge with him.

Submitted by Temple3 on October 10, 2005 - 1:10am.

What else can be expected? He's so 1845 with his stuff. A real corny throwback.

Submitted by Ourstorian on October 10, 2005 - 9:59am.

McW is just the latest Negrobot to roll off the shufflebutt assembly line. When he's outlived his usefulness he will go on display in the Greatest Handkerchief Heads in History exhibit on the first floor of the Zip Coon Museum.

Submitted by Cobb on October 12, 2005 - 5:25pm.

He definitely went in the wrong direction on this one. But that doesn't do one thing in diminishing the truth of his conclusion, conveniently edited out:

Policing for racial sensitivity does not do a thing for black people who need help. There are thousands of black people languishing in shelters and ships after a horrific natural catastrophe – and we're giving someone grief because something he said in passing didn't have a nice ring to it?

Submitted by Prometheus 6 on October 12, 2005 - 5:35pm.

But that doesn't do one thing in diminishing the truth of his conclusion

That's not a conclusion, it's an assertion. And no one ever said busting Bennett does anything for people who need shelter.

conveniently edited out:

...because I always ignore strawmen. 

Submitted by Ourstorian on October 13, 2005 - 10:24am.

"Policing for racial sensitivity does not do a thing for black people who need help."

Fodder from a strawman.

While shuffling down the yellow brick road to pick up his paycheck at the toady factory, McW had an epiphany. He realized he wasn't craven enough and that if he wanted to rise to the supreme heights of boyhood with the likes of Tomass Clarence, Underarms Williams and the other superstars of the zip coon establishment he would have to defend the tenets and prerogatives of white supremacy with a martyr's zeal. Guarding "white only" restrooms from the black masses, and serving as "Piss Boy" for Bennett, though rewarding tasks, did not bring him the recognition he felt he deserved. What better way to achieve fame and fortune, with the emphasis on fortune, than to shill on paper. He sat right down, took his foot out his mouth, stuck his head up his ass, and went to work.

Submitted by Temple3 on October 13, 2005 - 3:14pm.

Imagine how quiet our world would be if cobb, mcw, and their coonies (i meant cronies) were banned or simply ignored when they brought hay from the barn instead of needles!!!

Fugeddaboutit...it's like every post is, like, filled with ideas that, like, depend on, like, some illogical premise or assertion that, like, has no independent coherence. It's like "tautologies for suckas!"

I'm sure these guys are great over a bottle of Jack D or a long tall glass of Sapphire and Tonic, but they on some silly ishnit when it comes to printed word and the flow of a good argument. There's always flaw school.

Submitted by Cobb on October 14, 2005 - 1:45pm.

While shuffling down the yellow brick road to pick up his paycheck at the toady factory, McW had an epiphany. He realized he wasn't craven enough and that if he wanted to rise to the supreme heights of boyhood with the likes of Tomass Clarence, Underarms Williams and the other superstars of the zip coon establishment he would have to defend the tenets and prerogatives of white supremacy with a martyr's zeal. Guarding "white only" restrooms from the black masses, and serving as "Piss Boy" for Bennett, though rewarding tasks, did not bring him the recognition he felt he deserved. What better way to achieve fame and fortune, with the emphasis on fortune, than to shill on paper. He sat right down, took his foot out his mouth, stuck his head up his ass, and went to work.

Is this actually useful? Do college educated people actually talk like this? Are college educated people actually supposed to listen to this?

Submitted by cnulan on October 14, 2005 - 1:53pm.

It's vastly more entertaining and heartfelt than the more reprehensible apologetics for gangsterism and fin d'siecle jim crow required of applicants to the conservative haplotype

Submitted by Temple3 on October 14, 2005 - 2:58pm.

cobb:

you've got to admit that o is hilarious. forget about your connection to mcdub or even the use of vulgar language. just picture the detailed imagery, the compelling historical references, the fanciful juxtaposition of ideological extremes, and the down right Redd Foxxian way of bringing the joke home. this is great stuff. if ya ain't laughin' ya lyin'!! i'm still rotflmbao!!!!

Submitted by Temple3 on October 14, 2005 - 2:59pm.

i'm still rotflmbao!!!!!

Submitted by Ourstorian on October 14, 2005 - 3:07pm.

"Is this actually useful? Do college educated people actually talk like this? Are college educated people actually supposed to listen to this?"

Aww, gee, you flatter me Negrodamus. But to answer your question...

Depends on which college you attended. If you're a graduate of the Amos 'n Andy Institute of Tomcoonery and Porch Monkeyology, I admit it might be a tad confusing.

On the other hand, if you went to the Malcolm X School of Tricknology Hermeneutics, then....

Submitted by Temple3 on October 14, 2005 - 3:41pm.

i'm still rotflmbao!!!!!

Submitted by Prometheus 6 on October 14, 2005 - 4:37pm.

At the Quantum Griot Mystery School, it's taught to fulfill a second language requirement.

Submitted by Cobb on October 14, 2005 - 8:22pm.

guess i've outgrown it. boohab used to roll like that. anyway, you wouldn't call me a coon to my face and keep yours in the same shape.

Submitted by Prometheus 6 on October 14, 2005 - 8:58pm.

guess i've outgrown it.

Probably. Damn shame.

you wouldn't call me a coon to my face and keep yours in the same shape.

No doubt. But you know they're playing the dozens and honestly man, you see nobody brings straight-up Democrat shit in here, don't you? How can you defend this sort of rhetoric and expect discussion about it? Be real.

Think about the reaction you get when you advocate conservative values and methods. And think about the reaction you get when you advocate Conservatives.

Submitted by Ourstorian on October 15, 2005 - 3:03am.

"you wouldn't call me a coon to my face and keep yours in the same shape"

Dying young is hard to take but selling out is harder----Sly Stone 

Submitted by Cobb on October 15, 2005 - 1:21pm.

So I'll play in Blackprof's sandbox when I'm in the mood to be straightlaced. Good to have an alternative from the ruckus. but every once in a while i can get morris day on some monkey asses.

Submitted by Ourstorian on October 15, 2005 - 1:31pm.

Nothing like a little "Jungle Love" to straighten a brother out.

Oee Oee Ohhh...... 

Submitted by Temple3 on October 15, 2005 - 1:47pm.

what's the point of the blackprof link? the first post is fundamentally logical, but in the second post - each of the premises is flawed or false and the conclusion suffers accordingly.

what does any of that have to do with supporting folks whose contempt for your collective is not only considerable, but empirically demonstrable as policy and practice? i wonder.

Submitted by Prometheus 6 on October 15, 2005 - 2:01pm.

It's a statement on the futility of Black partisan activities and the necessity of integration.

Eventually, an older scientist tells him the problem:  To understand the career of his favorite insect, he must understand how it is linked with those of other varieties that he has excluded from consideration.  By doing so, the young scientist has lost sight of the interconnectedness of life and the way in which different insects interact in a complex dance that includes food supply, access to light, places to lay eggs, and dozens of other elements essential to flourishing.

Studying race is like studying entomology in that one cannot understand—or even champion effectively—the fortunes of one group without understanding the forces that drive the fates of others.

Which I acknowledge...which is why I'm pointing out HUMAN patterns, and showing how they apply in the conditions we Black folk find ourselves in. I just think an accurate understanding is a better goal than a sympathetic.

 

Submitted by Ourstorian on October 15, 2005 - 2:26pm.

"what does any of that have to do with supporting folks whose contempt for your collective is not only considerable, but empirically demonstrable as policy and practice? i wonder."

I had my first "encounter" with Cobb after I questioned Randall Robinson's statement about cannibalism in the aftermath of Katrina. Cobb took the opening as an invitation to denounce Robinson and claim he had contributed nothing to the struggle. While Robinson was clearly and profoundly wrong in his Katrina outburst (he quickly retracted the statement and apologized), this single incident shouldn't and didn't call into question the man's entire career (except in Cobb's mind of course). It was at that point I became aware of Cobb and his website. Here's a choice example of what I found recently:

Here we have a majority in the House, Senate, the White House, the Supreme Court and probably the Governors as well, and yet there's turmoil over Miers. All this smacks to me of a minority party trying to purge itself in order to make a radical choice clear. That may be useful for what I'm doing against black progressives and black liberals, but fer chrissake, grow up GOP. You're supposed to be leading America, and you're not. 

Cobb makes no bones about his agenda on his website. That's his prerogative. I try to stay as far away from the slave quarters as I can, so he doesn't have to worry about me pulling a Harriet Tubman on him or his readers. But when he ventures out into progressive turf he should expect to catch a rhetorical beatdown.

As for real life encounters--his threat to re-shape my face--he could bring J.C. Watts, Ken Blackwell, Armstrong Williams, LaShawn Barber, Larry Elder, Ward Connerly, and the rest of the Coon-servative Black Sistahood and between them they still couldn't come up with a set of cojones not previously worn by Ann Coulter.

 

 

Submitted by Ourstorian on October 15, 2005 - 3:16pm.

"It's a statement on the futility of Black partisan activities and the necessity of integration."

Yep. You nailed it. That's what they are seeking: integration into a burning house. The mothafuckin' roof is on fire, but those kneegros are still busy moving their "stuff" into the basement.

I guess they never learned the old axiom: "timing is everything." The American empire they so desperately seek to join is in decline. White supremacy is going the way of the dinosaurs. If the revolution won't come to change America from within, the Asian demographic timebomb will take care of it. Kneegros bettah learn some Chinese so they can at least apply for overseer jobs on the next generation plantation.

Submitted by Cobb on October 15, 2005 - 3:55pm.

My burning house is called Bank of America. Where do you put your money, Wu Tang Financial?

See you like to play the game like your collective is all of African America, but ain't nobody buying that drivel. The interests of your collective are what they are and nobody feels any shame about it, except what's shameless is that when you run out of juice, you go and pretend that your loss is the loss of the black masses, whom you don't know any better than I do. You're using the black race as a rhetorical human shield and you are using the implements of human progress as a foil that you paint white. This situation allows you to play on the ignorance and fear of people who have not experienced success in America.

So I have no problem doing battle against liberals and progressives for the sake of clarity. I let the people decide what they may. They have a choice and the more you demonize my avenue, the more attractive it becomes.

Bring it.

BTW, I got a yidyar dong-shi dong-shi fo' you ass too.

Submitted by Prometheus 6 on October 15, 2005 - 4:05pm.

I believe that's quite enough.

Submitted by Ourstorian on October 15, 2005 - 4:14pm.

"My burning house is called Bank of America."

Yeah. That figures. 

Submitted by Ourstorian on October 15, 2005 - 4:16pm.

P6 did you remove my previous post?

Submitted by Prometheus 6 on October 15, 2005 - 4:18pm.

Yes. I think the thread has reached the end of its productive life.

Submitted by Ourstorian on October 15, 2005 - 4:26pm.

I don't appreciate being censored without a warning. I posted what I had to say before I read your comment "I believe that's quite enough."

This is your house. Your rules. But I don't dig what you just did. So I guess I better find somewhere else to hang my hat and opinions.

 

Submitted by Prometheus 6 on October 15, 2005 - 4:44pm.

Your option. You're always welcome.

Submitted by dwshelf on October 16, 2005 - 1:22am.

Hang around, O.

Don't doubt that I've thought exactly as you do.

But consider the result.  The result is a place where you and I can encounter each other on a real basis (and it's not just me and you, of course).  There are tons of forums out there where the crap runs so deep that it's just not a rewarding place to be; when I say crap running deep, it's not people disagreeing with me.  We know what it is, P6 knows what it is, and it doesn't run deep around here.