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Does OpinionJournal EVER present honest analysis?

Submitted by Prometheus 6 on May 19, 2006 - 10:23am.
on

They want vouchers specifically to support Catholic schools in NYC.

Catholic schools produce results far better than their public counterparts for a fraction of the cost. On last year's New York State reading and math tests, fourth and eighth graders in Catholic schools scored 7% to 10% higher than public-school students. The public per-pupil cost in New York is about $15,000 annually; Catholic school tuition is about $3,000.

The public per-pupil cost includes capital expense like building maintenance. Catholic school tuition does not. The comparison is meaningless.

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So you think NYC spend 
Submitted by Scott Wickham (not verified) on May 19, 2006 - 3:23pm.

So you think NYC spend  $12,000 a years on building ?

give me a break.  the analysis is exactly what it is an 

honest order of magnatude estimate.

Catholic school cost lest to run. and get better results.

 


 

 

So you think NYC spend
Submitted by Prometheus 6 on May 19, 2006 - 11:34pm.
So you think NYC spend $12,000 a years on building ?

On that, plus expenditures for property and for buildings and alterations completed by school district staff or contractors, expenditures for operations funded by sales of products or services (e.g., school bookstore or computer time), expenditures for health, attendance, and speech pathology services, expenditures for curriculum development, staff training, libraries, and media and computer centers, general school administration, operations and maintainance, student transportation, food service, capital outlays and interest on school debt.

Those are state figures and all checkable. Most recent figures are for 2003-2003.

Where do we check the $3000 tuition? Do all Catholic schools set the tuition at $3000? Do you add the uniforms, the books, the mandatory bake sale purchases and "donations," the mileage carrying the kids back and forth?

Do we just notice that the Catholic Church is closing a lot of the schools...not because the parents can't pay the tuition but because the Church doesn't want to subsidize them anymore? How much money does the Catholic Church kick in (include the salaries they'd have to pay teachers if they didn't have nuns laying all about).

 

Catholic Schools
Submitted by starling (not verified) on May 21, 2006 - 7:41am.
Okay, so the comparison is meaningless. But only in so far as we can't make an honest one. It may be the case that "Catholic schools produce results far better than their public counterparts for a fraction of the cost." And it may not be the case. It's an empirical question for which, as you rightly point out, the data is not available. But there is another claim here which can be evaluated- that children attending Catholic schools scored 7-10% higher than public schools students. Do you refute that claim as well?
But there is another claim
Submitted by Prometheus 6 on May 21, 2006 - 2:29pm.
But there is another claim here which can be evaluated- that children attending Catholic schools scored 7-10% higher than public schools students. Do you refute that claim as well?

Raw data? It's probably true. Before I tried to build a case on it I might want to try taking class size, or family wealth into account. If the raw data says the difference is 7%, you may well find after controlling for family wealth public schools are actually the better of the two. That's all just loose talk, right now...exactly the sort of loose talk I complained about two comments up.

Understand me: I'm not for hiding the data. I'm just not for pretending reasonable decisions can be made if that data is considered in isolation from known significant facts. I'm not so much refuting their statements as noting they are empty. 

Schools
Submitted by starling (not verified) on May 21, 2006 - 11:29pm.
Prometheus6, you clearly understand a thing or two or three about social science research. but surely you are not the first person to recognize that differences in test scores (or, for that matter, any other measure of school performance) can be explained by things like family wealth. Surely there is research done by reputable scholars and published in reputable journals that address the question directly. Is there any consensus in the literature either way or is this still an open quesiton? I ask not as a challenge to the excellent objections you have raised, but only to say that if there are studies supporting the Opinion Journal's main thesis, then it is not all "loose talk". The issue would be that he failed to point out the specific basis for his claims. This is not uncommon for op-ed writers.
Basing the article on loose
Submitted by Prometheus 6 on May 22, 2006 - 1:03am.

Basing the article on loose talk (the invalid comparison) makes the article loose talk no matter what follows the invalid comparison.

And this is important. Opinion Journal is an opinion leader, as are many of it's writers. Do you remember how Rush Limbaugh had to drop out of the media after it was discovered an American bombed the federal building in Oklahoma City? People blamed him for stirring up the militia movement with his anti-government presentation.

They have to take personal responsibility for the impact of their words...over the next few years a lot of politicians will come to understand this. I've already heard "remember Ruby Ridge" on American Journal.